Politics And Current Events

[Kaiser]

The KKK is irrelevant, until someone tries to use them to smear their enemies.

[MWB]

Agree. I am against public education in the sense that I don't like how it's done currently. To the point that I believe I should be able to opt-out of funding it all together. If there is a new system in place that makes sense, I would support it.

You don't know how it's currently done, but are against it?

I think teachers need to be incentivized to develop children. It's like a sports team, you have young talent, you need to develop it. Development, contrary to popular belief, is not just playing games. You need someone there in practice that can challenge a player. You don't get better by remaining in your comfort zone. An easier analogy is weight lifting: you won't get bigger if you come in and just lift the same weight every single day.

How would you like teachers to be "incentivized?" One way is money, but people don't want to do that.

[Tomas]

Agree. I am against public education in the sense that I don't like how it's done currently. To the point that I believe I should be able to opt-out of funding it all together. If there is a new system in place that makes sense, I would support it.

You don't know how it's currently done, but are against it?

I think teachers need to be incentivized to develop children. It's like a sports team, you have young talent, you need to develop it. Development, contrary to popular belief, is not just playing games. You need someone there in practice that can challenge a player. You don't get better by remaining in your comfort zone. An easier analogy is weight lifting: you won't get bigger if you come in and just lift the same weight every single day.

How would you like teachers to be "incentivized?" One way is money, but people don't want to do that.

This is how you incentivize, fool!

($80 million guaranteed over 6 years)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkHqPFbxmOU

[CBear3]

What a time to be alive, USA Today headline reads:
'Trump correctly cites rising murder rates in cities'
And follows that up in the body of the article noting that in the same speech he pinned it on large numbers of illegals joining gangs with absolutely no data, proof, or even an inkling of an explanation why that would be.

[mikey]

Agree. I am against public education in the sense that I don't like how it's done currently. To the point that I believe I should be able to opt-out of funding it all together. If there is a new system in place that makes sense, I would support it.

You don't know how it's currently done, but are against it?

I think teachers need to be incentivized to develop children. It's like a sports team, you have young talent, you need to develop it. Development, contrary to popular belief, is not just playing games. You need someone there in practice that can challenge a player. You don't get better by remaining in your comfort zone. An easier analogy is weight lifting: you won't get bigger if you come in and just lift the same weight every single day.

How would you like teachers to be "incentivized?" One way is money, but people don't want to do that.

- Uh, I'm not saying I'm an expert...but I think I get the general framework...and if it was working efficiently, there wouldn't be initiatives like NCLB and whatever that thing that Obama put through late was...there wouldn't be studies that show our somewhat lackluster showing against other first world countries, we don't seem to be getting better at the same rate...we don't support the idea that trade/vocational schools are a useful measure...the workforce is determined to ensure that you're at least $20K in debt with may be useful/maybe not university education...and teachers' unions create a limited competition environment that allow teachers like the ones in my high school to remain virtually untouchable...teachers that drink bloody mary's in the classroom in first period Spanish or those that are so completely inept at teaching and classes so out of control that an entire storage locker of computer materials were chucked into a dumpster or that I spent an entire year of a full double period (i.e. 80 minutes) having assembled a computer specifically for Tecmo Super Bowl to be played with my buddy...full year...every day...nothing said...now, those are extreme examples, certainly, but when you remove/limit competition, these are the things that creep in...

And I'm willing to pay to play...if it's good. But it needs to be based on a sound system with a strong foundation. Since it's unlikely that we'll allow the free market to just fix this thing and it will be done by artificial means/tinkering/manipulation, I'd be interested in hearing a solution...somehow private schools can produce better results with less money...let's start with a review of their system and see what makes it tick...

[count2infinity]

Private schools have parents that care about their child's education. More parental involvement in a student's educational career, the more successful those students tend to be. If a student is under-performing or is a behavioral problem, private schools have the luxury of parting ways with the student fairly easily. Case closed.

[mikey]

Ok, except for the "case closed" part...I'm not sure why you're trying to close the "case"...a) you've somehow provided even less to talk about than I did in my kick-off post and b) you haven't solved anything

It's the equivalent of starting the OJ Simpson trial, listening to the first eye-witness testimony and then closing the case without rendering any verdict...why not keep the discussion going...? Because that's likely how you're (royal "you") are going to learn something is by talking about it...instead of "closing cases" after two sentences as if you said anything remotely worthy of closing anything...

Why can't that be Exhibit A instead and then maybe we can keep the ball rolling on this conversation and get other people with different backgrounds involved too...MWB, in particular, seems pretty knowledgeable on the subject at the least, I'm sure grunty has some family involved in public education ( )...so, motion to continue, your honor...

[Factorial]

MWB has said the exact same thing numerous times.

[CBear3]

Private schools have parents that care about their child's education. More parental involvement in a student's educational career, the more successful those students tend to be. If a student is under-performing or is a behavioral problem, private schools have the luxury of parting ways with the student fairly easily. Case closed.

If I care about my kid's education, I make sacrifices to get them to a better school, whether it be by paying for private schools or moving to a better school district.
Their peers in those schools also live in similar lifestyles where education is prioritized. Sure there's a percentage that won the lottery to get there, but even the jackoffs from my HS are a whole lot better off than I ever would have imagined because even doing a crap job in a great school is better than excelling at a piss poor one where teachers have to focus on the lowest common denominator.

[count2infinity]

If you have some sort of definitive study showing exactly why private schools "perform better" than public schools, then by all means, fill me in on that. I don't think there is anyone crazy enough to debate that there is zero correlation between parents giving a sh*t and students doing well because the parents give a sh*t. The ultimate way to care about it is open up your wallet and send them to a private school. Will that exact same student not perform just as well at a public school? I don't know, but I certainly have my doubts.

Private schools also have the ability to say no to students. I wonder, wonder, wonder why they "perform better"... what ever could it be? Will private and charter schools retain the ability to say no with vouchers? What happens when they become full? Some sort of lottery system? First come first serve?

[grunthy]

I'm all in favor of a total revamp of our education system.

Take a optional test to see if you can get into a college prep school, otherwise (fail test/don't take it) you go to a school that teaches you trades and has apprenticeships.

[grunthy]

Also, home EC and life skill courses would be mandatory for every school to have.

[CBear3]

Honestly, how about second shift teachers?
(Good) Teachers already spend 10-12 hrs focused on their classes. More after school programs that are focused on creative, less structured educational methods. More game/club focussed stuff.
The after school program at our elementary is seen as child-care, but if it was pushed at a lower price or made available for free based on need like school lunches could that extra attention help? You can't make parents be involved, once the kids are out the door you get what you get. So you have to develop an interest in succeeding at education while they're in those doors.
Trying to increase the time and attention kids get by having them in the school longer and using alternative teaching methods without focusing on grades.

[count2infinity]

https://www.facebook.com/daylin.leach/p ... nref=story

[tifosi77]

Who opposes ass?

[MWB]

I'll respond in more depth later, but a quick note about global test scores: the US has never done great on those, and has shown some improvements in recent years. So they can't really be used as evidence as to how our system is getting worse.

[mikey]

MWB has said the exact same thing numerous times.

Geez, I'd hate to re-tread information in this thread...what a sin that would be...could you imagine...talking about the same thing over and over again...? Crazy. I'll concede the point to whatever the answer was...

[count2infinity]

MWB has said the exact same thing numerous times.

Geez, I'd hate to re-tread information in this thread...what a sin that would be...could you imagine...talking about the same thing over and over again...? Crazy. I'll concede the point to whatever the answer was...

There's actually an education thread if you're genuinely interested in reading people's thoughts on education.

[mikey]

If you have some sort of definitive study showing exactly why private schools "perform better" than public schools, then by all means, fill me in on that. I don't think there is anyone crazy enough to debate that there is zero correlation between parents giving a sh*t and students doing well because the parents give a sh*t. The ultimate way to care about it is open up your wallet and send them to a private school. Will that exact same student not perform just as well at a public school? I don't know, but I certainly have my doubts.

Private schools also have the ability to say no to students. I wonder, wonder, wonder why they "perform better"... what ever could it be? Will private and charter schools retain the ability to say no with vouchers? What happens when they become full? Some sort of lottery system? First come first serve?

Is the bolded why you have been reduced to just spouting off random, hack buzzwords in passive aggressive attempts to belittle those that don't agree with your straight-down-party-line nonsense...? Not only did I not say that wasn't valid, but I believe I referred to it as "evidence" and "Exhibit A"...all I wanted to do was talk about it more...because parent involvement is low-hanging fruit and not entirely actionable...so it made no sense, in my mind, to end the conversation there...

I can't really answer that second paragraph, that seems too far down the line at this point anyway...we haven't decided on dessert yet and you're worried about if the cake will fall...

[columbia]

Who opposes ass?

tattooass.jpg

[MWB]

Honestly, how about second shift teachers?
(Good) Teachers already spend 10-12 hrs focused on their classes. More after school programs that are focused on creative, less structured educational methods. More game/club focussed stuff.
The after school program at our elementary is seen as child-care, but if it was pushed at a lower price or made available for free based on need like school lunches could that extra attention help? You can't make parents be involved, once the kids are out the door you get what you get. So you have to develop an interest in succeeding at education while they're in those doors.
Trying to increase the time and attention kids get by having them in the school longer and using alternative teaching methods without focusing on grades.

I get it, and see the merit in it, but what you're basically saying is that we need to hire people to parent.

[mikey]

MWB has said the exact same thing numerous times.

Geez, I'd hate to re-tread information in this thread...what a sin that would be...could you imagine...talking about the same thing over and over again...? Crazy. I'll concede the point to whatever the answer was...

There's actually an education thread if you're genuinely interested in reading people's thoughts on education.

Naturally, I am genuinely interested - I don't have nearly the amount of knowledge on it as I could, so discussing it seems like the best way to learn...is it actually pertinent to this conversation (honest question)...? Or is it about higher education and personal experience with that...?

[MWB]

Vocational schools? Yes, please. Add more. Hire back all the teachers that were told they weren't needed.

Don't tell everyone they have to go to college? Yes, please. Trades are excellent.

Evaluate teachers properly? Yes, please.

Teachers are basically told to have an individual plan for every child now. Thirty kids, thirty needs. And that is a great approach. The problem is that it's impossible to carry out efficiently and pretty impossible to plan, unless you spend 6 hours after school planning.

Have teachers collaborate and hone their craft? Great idea. I'm lucky to have some time to do that. I'm unlucky in that my district has also wasted countless hours of time telling us how to write a correct purpose statement on the board. I've been teaching for 15 years. If I don't know how to communicate what I'm expecting kids to know yet, fire me. If I am, leave me the hell alone and let me do my job.

Fire bad teachers? Yes, please.

[MWB]

C2I, if you want to move my post to the education thread, go for it.

[count2infinity]

C2I, if you want to move my post to the education thread, go for it.

Nah, it's good here. It's a current event. And I agree with everything you said above as do the vast majority of educators across the country.