Fifth Avenue Forum

No. It's simply that if anything is perfect -- complete -- flawless -- then that thing would have no desire -- no need -- to do anything. There would be nothing beyond its completeness.

My belief is that God didn't need to create humanity. He wanted to create humanity to share in the relationship that he shares with the Son and Holy Spirit. We are the extension of that love/relationship. We f'ed it up, but he wanted to fix it.

But why would anything that is perfect have a want?

That means that there is something lacking which it wants to rectify or improve. No perfect, complete, flawless thing would have anything lacking and therefore would have no wants.

You're assuming this want is coming from a lack of something, rather than a desire to give.

No. It's simply that if anything is perfect -- complete -- flawless -- then that thing would have no desire -- no need -- to do anything. There would be nothing beyond its completeness.

My belief is that God didn't need to create humanity. He wanted to create humanity to share in the relationship that he shares with the Son and Holy Spirit. We are the extension of that love/relationship. We f'ed it up, but he wanted to fix it.

But why would anything that is perfect have a want?

That means that there is something lacking which it wants to rectify or improve. No perfect, complete, flawless thing would have anything lacking and therefore would have no wants.

You're assuming this want is coming from a lack of something, rather than a desire to give.

I don't know what a "combox" is.

I had to Google "aseity":

Aseity (from Latin a "from" and se "self", plus -ity) is the property by which a being exists in and of itself, from itself, or exists as so-and-such of and from itself

And there are lots of aliens, but we'll never meet them.

i actually find the notion of an imperfect god comforting. because no doi he's imperfect (africa, amiright). but more so, my 2nd favorite dumb optimistic theory of the universe is that god is debugging his own program. and then running it over and over to find more glitches until they're all snuffed out. maybe he tried the whole "create the universe" thing many many times before even figuring out how to create life. and then he created life but couldn't figure out the recipe for a human. then he figured that out, but couldn't figure out how to design humans so they don't completely wipe each other out the first chance they get. then he figured THAT out, but he still hasn't made it all work without everyone getting cancer eventually.

So each big bang would ultimately be a reboot, more refined than the last, until we finally get our heaven on earth. i mean...obviously we're stuck in that cancer version, so this is of no practical utility. but i like to think that clones of me and my family are also prospering in that utopia version.

i actually find the notion of an imperfect god comforting. because no doi he's imperfect (africa, amiright). but more so, my 2nd favorite dumb optimistic theory of the universe is that god is debugging his own program. and then running it over and over to find more glitches until they're all snuffed out. maybe he tried the whole "create the universe" thing many many times before even figuring out how to create life. and then he created life but couldn't figure out the recipe for a human. then he figured that out, but couldn't figure out how to design humans so they don't completely wipe each other out the first chance they get. then he figured THAT out, but he still hasn't made it all work without everyone getting cancer eventually.

So each big bang would ultimately be a reboot, more refined than the last, until we finally get our heaven on earth. i mean...obviously we're stuck in that cancer version, so this is of no practical utility. but i like to think that clones of me and my family are also prospering in that utopia version.

Surprisingly, I've thought of similar scenarios to this. I don't believe God is imperfect, but there is the possibility this isn't the first iteration of life on earth as we know it. If free will is a thing (and I believe it is), perhaps a previous version of what we are experiencing now already happened, there was a gathering of the souls, the old heavens and earth destroyed, and a new heaven and earth created. We never lost our free will, so sometime along the "reign with God forever and ever" our souls became greedy and we sinned. Back to hell on earth as we now know it. The cycle repeats many times.

It would help explain why the Bible says the earth is only 6000 years old if calculated according to lineage, but we see fossils from millions of years ago. It would also align slightly with reincarnation. But it doesn't address the only begotten Son conundrum. God ain't sending his Son more than once. Maybe he had a different saving mechanism for the other iterations. Probably not, which is why I don't really subscribe to this theory.

Source of the post pretty sure his point also eliminates the word "desire". there is no such thing as desire for a perfect god.

Source of the post Do you differentiate between a "want" and a "desire"?

Source of the post this is..not so similar to my scenario

And there are lots of aliens, but we'll never meet them.

i know...trump, right?

Here is a decent intro to the idea

https://youtu.be/gUxmi-BQVwA

Why the catch of having to believe? Shouldn't said gift be unconditional?

Why the catch of having to believe? Shouldn't said gift be unconditional?

God: Here, take this free ticket for entry into eternal bliss
columbia: you don't exist, therefore there is no ticket
columbia dies
God: Sorry, can't come in since you didn't take the free ticket
columbia: ???

Parents don’t have conditional love for their children.

Why the catch of having to believe? Shouldn't said gift be unconditional?

God: Here, take this free ticket for entry into eternal bliss
columbia: you don't exist, therefore there is no ticket
columbia dies
God: Sorry, can't come in since you didn't take the free ticket
columbia: ???

When I see a child that acts out, I blame the parents, not the kid.

Why the catch of having to believe? Shouldn't said gift be unconditional?

God: Here, take this free ticket for entry into eternal bliss
columbia: you don't exist, therefore there is no ticket
columbia dies
God: Sorry, can't come in since you didn't take the free ticket
columbia: ???

When I see a child that acts out, I blame the parents, not the kid.

Not if I was all powerful!

Parents don’t have conditional love for their children.

Oh, really? Tell that to a child that was disowned because of their beliefs or sexual orientation...

Not if I was all powerful!

If you are given free will then yes they can choose wrong. I’m sure you as a parent won’t force your kid to do everything you want.

Why the catch of having to believe? Shouldn't said gift be unconditional?

God: Here, take this free ticket for entry into eternal bliss
columbia: you don't exist, therefore there is no ticket
columbia dies
God: Sorry, can't come in since you didn't take the free ticket
columbia: ???

Parents don’t have conditional love for their children.

Oh, really? Tell that to a child that was disowned because of their beliefs or sexual orientation...

I'm assuming that robbiestoupe 's love for his children is unconditional - and all of the other parents here too.

Parents don’t have conditional love for their children.

Oh, really? Tell that to a child that was disowned because of their beliefs or sexual orientation...

I'm assuming that robbiestoupe 's love for his children is unconditional - and all of the other parents here too.

H E double hockey sticks no. I wish.