Religion Discussion Thread

columbia
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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby columbia » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:17 am

Hopefully we can have an engaging and respectful discussion on what is obviously a very broad and important topic. I'll let another poster start things out:
Happy Easter to all!

Matthew 28:1-10
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men. The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. Then go quickly and tell his disciples: 'He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.' Now I have told you."So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me."

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Last edited by columbia on Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

columbia
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Reglion Discussion Thread

Postby columbia » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:19 am

My parents were Southern Baptists and eventually moved to a Methodist church in their mid 20s.

They also managed to raise fourth atheists. Weird? I don't know, but they gave it their best shot and we all were confirmed.

Happy Easter to those who observe it!

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Reglion Discussion Thread

Postby Tico Rick » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:21 am

Too bad God didn't create a Grammar Thread created before the Reglion Discussion Thread was created. :D

columbia
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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby columbia » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:22 am

I fixed that, with a little divine intervention. :slug:

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby Tico Rick » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:26 am

:thumb:

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Postby count2infinity » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:46 am

Where I grew up there was one choice... Christian. It was just a matter of what flavor of Christian. I was raised Roman Catholic. I was an alter server, did a ton of community service with the church, was confirmed into the church, and then I got out of Bedford County and found out there were more options, including not being religious.

Current beliefs: Agnostic. I don't think anyone has it 100% right, and I don't think anyone can have it 100% right. If I had to lean to one side or another about there being a higher being I would probably sway to the side there not being one, but I don't think that makes the world any less magical or spiritual. The order and structure of the world is incredible. Many take that to prove God. I don't. I find a hard and fast belief in anything (religious or atheist) incredible. Not incredible bad or incredible good, just incredible as I can't fathom that method of thinking. I guess my brain just isn't wired to work that way.

I welcome the open discussion of religion. Keep it clean.

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby PFiDC » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:05 am

Where's my 10 foot pole?

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:14 am

I'm agnostic, ignostic and atheist, but most importantly apatheistic. I don't really care

columbia
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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby columbia » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:35 am

Where I grew up there was one choice... Christian. It was just a matter of what flavor of Christian. I was raised Roman Catholic. I was an alter server, did a ton of community service with the church, was confirmed into the church, and then I got out of Bedford County and found out there were more options, including not being religious.
Part of what prompted me to start this thread: What do my parents really think about the irreligiosity of their children? I honestly don't know. My father long ago stopped throwing in the idea of me going to church in conversation. Of the two, he would probably have a stronger opinion, so I'll probably ask my mother. :lol:

So that raises the question of whether I would go to a church service with them, while visiting them. Maybe.....I suppose it would have to be a situation where my father really talked up a visiting minister. They've both mentioned that their current pastor is "too Baptist", which endlessly amuses me.

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Postby count2infinity » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:01 pm

My father was always a pretty casual catholic. My mother was raised Lutheran (2 of her brothers are Lutheran ministers), but converted to Catholicism when my older siblings were going to CCD (Catholic Sunday school). They had a bunch of questions that dad didn't want to bother thinking about/answering, and mom didn't know the answers, so she went to a few adult classes, decided the differences between Catholicism and Lutheran weren't great enough to justify going to a different mass every weekend, so she joined the Catholic church.

As far as my family, it's not something that we actively talk about. There are 6 of us kids. I think half of us have stopped attending mass. My dad used to question if I was still going, but has since given up. I think questions may arise when we have kids. Until then I'll enjoy not being badgered about it.

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby Kraftster » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:02 pm

I've been a soft atheist since I was probably 10 or 11. I was raised catholic for a bit, both of my parents went to catholic schools for some part of their lives, my mom all the way through high school. My early atheism was attributable to two things.

First, I happened upon the idea of nothingness in bed one night at a pretty young age. It paralyzed me with fear. It was after one of my grandfather's friends had died in his sleep. I was trying to fall asleep and things went something like: I hope I don't die, that would stink-->if I die, I'll go to heaven, though-->What if there's no heaven, then I wouldn't be in heaven, I'd just be laying there dead thinking how much it stinks to be dead-->Wait a minute, what if I can't even think to think I'm dead, what if I just go away and stop being altogether?! My dad finally calmed me down that night after a couple hours of hysteria by telling me that some part of me has to continue because I am energy and energy cannot cease to exist. I remember having a distinct feeling after that night that the whole heaven thing seemed like a fairy tale and too good to be true.

Second, around the same time, we stopped going to church because I was having a hard time understanding why I was supposed to be going to my first confession when I hadn't done anything wrong. My mom struggled for days with whether she could actually give me a fair reason for it. When she concluded that she couldn't, she decided that I shouldn't have to do it. From there, we basically went to holidays and occasional weekends for a while, then Christmas and Easter, and eventually nothing.

I guess I've just never felt like I could turn on faith, like genuine faith. I could lie to people and myself and say I believed, but that's not what I understand it to be all about. And I could never imagine that I'd be punished for feeling the only way I know how to feel.

I had my militant atheist phase during high school and college and had plenty of arguments with theists. About the most serious I ever got about considering "trying" to believe, was in light of Pascal's Wager. I'm pragmatic enough that perhaps I could be sold on that, but I kind of always felt like this about it:
Logic has almost nothing to do with religion, and those who try to drag it in are just spinning their wheels, for the most part. Even so, to help a few sophomores liven up their evenings a bit, let's look at Pascal's famous wager (which was anticipated by others centuries earlier). The eminent mathematician averred that it makes sense to believe, reasoning somewhat as follows:
If there is no God and you believe, you have lost nothing and gained hope. If there is a God and you disbelieve, you have lost hope and earned Hell. Therefore you have nothing to lose and much to gain by belief.
Of course, our friend Blaise overlooked a few little details -- such as, for openers, how one can obtain genuine faith merely by an act of will based on calculated self interest. Beyond that, there are inconvenient questions such as what happens if you choose to believe in the wrong God (God of another religion), and the true Gold holds this against you.
And then, of course, one may use a format similar to Pascal's to opposite effect as follows:
IF there is no God and you believe, you have debased your integrity and gained nothing. If there is a God, and he is unjust or maleficent, then he may condemn you despite your faith. If there is a God and he is beneficent, then he will understand and forgive your skepticism. Hence by disbelief you have nothing to lose and integrity to gain.
-Robert C.W. Ettinger

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby columbia » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:06 pm

militant atheist phase
I believe this to be a very small percentage of atheists (despite what some think). I mean, why the heck would I care what someone else believes (and want to challenge it)? I've been told that places like reddit/atheism are a cesspool and....I don't doubt that. They give the rest of us a bad name.

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Postby dodint » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:11 pm

My parents were Southern Baptists and eventually moved to a Methodist church in their mid 20s.

They also managed to raise fourth atheists. Weird? I don't know, but they gave it their best shot and we all were confirmed.

Happy Easter to those who observe it!
My Roman Catholic Mom had 7 brothers and sisters who all grew up to have a brood of their own. My brother, sister, and I have had zero kids between us.

I count both behaviors as progress that comes with the information age. ;)

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:12 pm

militant atheist phase
I believe this to be a very small percentage of atheists (despite what some think). I mean, why the heck would I care what someone else believes (and want to challenge it)? I've been told that places like reddit/atheism are a cesspool and....I don't doubt that. They give the rest of us a bad name.
it's the same with any group. There are some hardcore christians, but most are really nice and cool. There are the Muslim terrorists, but most are not even close to that.

but militant atheists are a loud minority and some people can't compartmentalize that it's only a small demographic of the atheists

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby columbia » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:24 pm

I'm interested in what people have faith have to say on "choice" relating to the matter. There's definitely no choice in the matter for me (and Mr. anti free will Kraftster would probably agree with me, in general terms :pop: ): it's simply not in me.

I have to assume that it is the same for those who *are* religious? They can't be any other way?

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby Robot B9 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:54 pm

I'm interested in what people have faith have to say on "choice" relating to the matter. There's definitely no choice in the matter for me (and Mr. anti free will Kraftster would probably agree with me, in general terms :pop: ): it's simply not in me.

I have to assume that it is the same for those who *are* religious? They can't be any other way?
Great to create this thread. Well done, sir. :thumb:

Looking for a quick clarification on what you mean by "choice relating to the matter"...as in, like, what I choose to believe (all/some/none)?

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby Kicksave » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:56 pm

I haven't read any of the posts yet. Do I need to delete this thread yet?

columbia
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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby columbia » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:57 pm

I guess I meant it more in a binary way: you believe and it couldn't be any other way, I assume.

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Postby Robot B9 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:12 pm

I guess I meant it more in a binary way: you believe and it couldn't be any other way, I assume.
Ok, thanks. Good question.

Quick answer is there is a lotttttttttt of stuff to believe and a lot of it is not written, but based on limited writings plus traditions - pretty much the same as most facets of society. To that end, I've really thought about the big stuff - creation (or existence, to be fair) of the universe and mankind and put it in context with what is taught and historically chronicled (bible, koran, torah) as well as science and our observable world.

So, I believe most of what is taught (I'm Catholic, raise/confirmed/yada), with two big corollaries:

1. The Catholic church acknowledge several mysteries of faith and different perspectives on even the same events told by major authors (Matty, Marky, Lukey, Jose - see the different ways the birth of Jesus is told - stuff exists in Matt that's not in Mark and it's like whaaaa?)

2. I really don't pretend to know how God "works" in the entirety - there are loads of teachings and explanations that I like and believe, but going back to the big stuff, I really don't know if He knows everything we think (but He may, not too difficult to get there) or really intercedes in everyone's lives equally (I believe He helps those who believe and help themselves) and have loads of evidence.

I'll make another post about it, but would love to know what different types of folks (religious/non/partial/agnostic) believe about some of the really big ones, like creation/existence of universe.

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby tifosi77 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:15 pm

militant atheist phase
I believe this to be a very small percentage of atheists (despite what some think). I mean, why the heck would I care what someone else believes (and want to challenge it)? I've been told that places like reddit/atheism are a cesspool and....I don't doubt that. They give the rest of us a bad name.
Nearly everyone I socialize with is either atheist or agnostic, and I don't think it would be accurate to characterize any of us as 'militant'. My credo is basically 'to each their own'; where I tend to lose my patience is when people (of any stripe) start trying to make 'their own' my own.

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby Robot B9 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:19 pm

militant atheist phase
I believe this to be a very small percentage of atheists (despite what some think). I mean, why the heck would I care what someone else believes (and want to challenge it)? I've been told that places like reddit/atheism are a cesspool and....I don't doubt that. They give the rest of us a bad name.
Nearly everyone I socialize with is either atheist or agnostic, and I don't think it would be accurate to characterize any of us as 'militant'. My credo is basically 'to each their own'; where I tend to lose my patience is when people (of any stripe) start trying to make 'their own' my own.
Indeed, and what starts out as snarkiness, quickly devolves into bad - and I'm talking from all parties, me included. So this thread should really be about expressing what you believe in, how it might relate to what others believe, and questioning respectfully so that we can all be smarter. Should be very similar to the Philosophy thread, but I think sectioning out the religious is best in the long run.

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby columbia » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:22 pm

Agreed.

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby Robot B9 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm

Agreed.

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:fist:

:thumb:

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby columbia » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:26 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby dodint » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:33 pm

I'm a deist because that's as far as science can take me. I think everything after the Big Bang happened according to natural law. Where the original ball of matter came from and what happened before that? Who knows, and I allow for the possibility of there being a higher being/society that created it. I don't believe in divine intervention or anything like that. Watchmaker God stuff. I've felt this way since my teens but discovered the name for it while in a college history class and it clicked into place as an actual thing.

The thing that separates me from Atheists is that I allow for the possibility of God, and I don't care who knows I'm a deist and I only bring it up in this context. *jab* ;)

There is more I'll say later but I want this passage to stand on its own.

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