Religion Discussion Thread

redwill
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Religion Discussion Thread

Postby redwill » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:56 pm

I answered that above. In Christian orthodoxy the idea of God's perfection is that he is complete in and of himself and does not require anything outside of himself.

His desire to create is not because of something lacking within him or from need but because that was his desire.
Any perfect being cannot have a desire.

:beatsthedeadhorse:
:bangsheadagainstwall:

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:00 pm

You have yet to establish any rational basis for that assumption. Desire does not require need.

Again, the problem with Jainian idea is an Eastern philosophical one.

The idea of perfection being the consummation of all things into one is at odds with the Christian concept of God's simplicity, which is summarized in what I quoted before.

redwill
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Postby redwill » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:03 pm

It is not an assumption.

It is a DEFINITION.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:04 pm

I answered that above. In Christian orthodoxy the idea of God's perfection is that he is complete in and of himself and does not require anything outside of himself.

His desire to create is not because of something lacking within him or from need but because that was his desire.
Any perfect being cannot have a desire.

:beatsthedeadhorse:
:bangsheadagainstwall:

Why can a perfect being not desire to share glory, not for his own wants or needs, but for others to have as well?

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:15 pm

Why does/should desire require need?

redwill
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Postby redwill » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:31 pm

OK I think you're just fcking with me now.

shmenguin
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Postby shmenguin » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:33 pm

OK I think you're just fcking with me now.
want vs need. there is a distinction. though for an all powerful being, there may not be.

redwill
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Postby redwill » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:47 pm

OK I think you're just fcking with me now.
want vs need. there is a distinction. though for an all powerful being, there may not be.
Whatevs. How can a perfect being have either?

Willie Kool
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Postby Willie Kool » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:53 pm

Yeah, a truly complete being could have no want or desire.

Any want or desire would indicate an incompleteness in itself.

robbiestoupe
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Postby robbiestoupe » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:53 pm

If your perfect being is a genie with infinite wishes, sure, it has no needs or wants. Perfection is only one aspect of the Christian God. He's not one dimensional.

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Postby Willie Kool » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:00 pm

So a genie is more perfect and complete than your god?

columbia
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Postby columbia » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:10 pm

So a genie is more perfect and complete than your god?
I thought you were a Christian. :?

robbiestoupe
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Postby robbiestoupe » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:19 pm

:face:

If one's goal is to acquire perfection, or nirvana, or dudeness or whatever - sure. The genie wins all the wins.

Freddy Rumsen
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Postby Freddy Rumsen » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:44 pm

The idea, again, that desire/choice = need and therefore incompleteness is an assumption on your part.

It is not a philosophical or logical requirement.

The idea that the Christian God in no way needed to or was in anyway required to create is foundational to the Christian concept of the Divine Being.

He was free to create or not to create at His pleasure.

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Postby Willie Kool » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:50 pm

So a genie is more perfect and complete than your god?
I thought you were a Christian. :?
My personal beliefs are a blend of Buddhism, science/nature, and a bit of residual RCism.

grunthy
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Postby grunthy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:51 pm

Image

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Postby Willie Kool » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:36 pm

The idea, again, that desire/choice = need and therefore incompleteness is an assumption on your part.

It is not a philosophical or logical requirement.
It most certainly is a logical requirement. Desire is a want or wish for something. A perfect, complete entity would have no need to want or wish for anything, as it is already perfect and complete.

columbia
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Postby columbia » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:42 pm

I want a pizza...

redwill
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Postby redwill » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:21 pm

I want a pizza...
You lack pizza-completeness.

You, sir, are imperfect. Go see c2i.

Willie Kool
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Postby Willie Kool » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:26 pm

If your perfect being is a genie with infinite wishes, sure, it has no needs or wants.

There is a big difference between being able to have anything you desire and being complete. A perfect being already IS everything that is, was and ever will be.
Perfection is only one aspect of the Christian God. He's not one dimensional.
Yes, that's kind of the point.

robbiestoupe
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Postby robbiestoupe » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:11 pm

Well, there are some out there that believe we are part of the composition of God, so there's that.

count2infinity
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Postby count2infinity » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:11 pm

I want a pizza...
You lack pizza-completeness.

You, sir, are imperfect. Go see c2i.
I’ll make you a pizza. It’ll be delicious, I promise.

redwill
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Postby redwill » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:24 pm

I’ll make you a pizza. It’ll be delicious, I promise.
I'll worship you anytime.

Margherita, please.

columbia
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Postby columbia » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:27 pm

PIZZA IS THE NEW GODHEAD

Gaucho
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Postby Gaucho » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:50 pm



Margherita, please.

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