Religion Discussion Thread

[count2infinity]

I believe that there are smorgasbord of emotions that people can feel toward uncertain situations and fear is certainly one of them. None of the emotions are any more "unnatural" than the rest, especially when it is an initial reaction to said encounter. I think with hindsight certain emotions could be looked at as silly or unfounded (again, depending on the situation), but not unnatural.

[Willie Kool]

It is, in fact, a psychological dysfunction to fear uncertainty and a prime contributor to anxiety disorders. It would be crippling beyond belief if it applied to all uncertainty one encounters.

[count2infinity]

I don't think your idea of fear and mine are equals. Fear, to me, ranges anywhere from "huh, that's kinda scary, oh well, back to my everyday life" to "holy crap, holy crap, holy crap, this is going to ruin my life, holy crap."

[Kraftster]

I still want to live forever. I am not sure how to describe my feelings about death. I don't think "fear" is the right word. It's more like a gut-wrenching sadness? I understand that it's nonsensical to fear the state of non-existence or hold any opinion about it because I won't be around to care. That doesn't change my feelings towards the prospect of it--not the actual state of non-existence--though.

I'm also not sure calling something "natural" really has much meaning. Everything is natural in the sense that it was always going to happen because of the natural laws of our world. That's not really providing any meaningful description of the thing, though. So, in that sense, I'm not sure the "naturalness" of something has much of a bearing on whether it is rational or irrational to harbor emotional feelings about the natural thing. Death is neither good nor bad, it just is. Same goes for something being "natural," I'd say. Sickness and disease are natural. Suffering is natural. Hunger is natural, etc.

The important thing about the sadness the prospect of death creates is that it provides the perspective necessary to appreciate everything more than one otherwise could. For me, the feelings I have towards death were essential to me seeing the light to (trying to) become a practicing stoic. It's a good exemplar of a dispreferred thing that I have minimal control over (none in the end). Death as the seminal dispreferred thing over which I have no control serves as a stepping stone for finding other such things in really every interaction I have.

Having a neutral view of death seems just as dangerous as having a misguidedly optimistic view of it. And it's kind of hard to see it as anything but a path to nihilism.

[count2infinity]

Historically, when was Noah around? What yearish?

[robbiestoupe]

Historically, when was Noah around? What yearish?

I don't have a direct answer, but considering he lived to be 950 years old, it shouldn't be hard to nail down an era when he was around. I'd venture a guess and say 6000-5000 BC

[count2infinity]

The only reason I ask is because there is evidence of ritualistic works (unknown as to whether they're religious or not) that predates the time of Noah by a long shot. If all religion came from him and his descendants, how did that happen?

[robbiestoupe]

Now I'm curious - what are the supposed dates?

I don't like to use the Bible as a history book, but always interested in origins and how things came to be.

[count2infinity]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion

[dodint]

2304 BC ± 11 years, says: http://creation.com/the-date-of-noahs-flood

[Willie Kool]

The only reason I ask is because there is evidence of ritualistic works (unknown as to whether they're religious or not) that predates the time of Noah by a long shot.

The tale of Ziusudra and the Sumerian flood myth predates the Noah myth by at least 1400 years.

[columbia]

How does the a-religious pre-destination crowd around here justify watching sports? The outcome is known <by something> ahead of time, but you are compelled by ____ to watch anyway? What is the nature of this magical force, which controls your existence (and the score of the Steelers game)?

[count2infinity]

They don't need to justify it... they were predestined to watching it.

[columbia]

Yes, I allowed for that in my statement.

What is the source? The local power plant?

[count2infinity]

The universe/physics, I guess?

[columbia]

That's awfully specific. I'd like to see a descriptive equation.

[Freddy Rumsen]

Predestination is not Fatalism. God uses means/instruments to perform His will.

God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

Though I don't really understand the question, to be honest.

[columbia]

I clearly wasn't posing my question to religious people.

[Freddy Rumsen]

I see that now.

[shmenguin]

How does the a-religious pre-destination crowd around here justify watching sports? The outcome is known <by something> ahead of time, but you are compelled by ____ to watch anyway? What is the nature of this magical force, which controls your existence (and the score of the Steelers game)?

The outcome isn't known by anyone or anything, even though it has already been determined. So why not witness first hand how things shake out? Movies are written and produced...ending and twists established...but since I don't know what happens I like going along for the ride.

[columbia]

What it is controlling your outcome? That sounds awfully like religion. Or is it a non-secular supernatural force, which has specific plans... for you?

[shmenguin]

What it is controlling your outcome? That sounds awfully like religion. Or is it a non-secular supernatural force, which has specific plans... for you?

"My" outcome isn't a thing. I'm just a collection of particles. The outcome of everything is just a math problem too complex for us to solve. It's not a special force. It's just x+y=z

[columbia]

That's pure speculation and you are aware of it.

Provide me a rational, reality based argument for free will not being true.
Note that I could could say the same thing to Freddy about God.

You're both on the sane clock, whether you like it or not.

[shmenguin]

How could it not be speculation?

short version is that your decisions and thoughts are entirely based on constant external influences.

I can't tonight. Not the right time. At the old joint I went into the detail you're after.

[columbia]

That's your speculation.

How is that any different from God exists...because God exists.