All Things Guns & Ammo

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

So I bought an M95 stupidly* without researching how impossibly difficult and or expensive it is to get 8x56r rounds for it


How hard is casting rounds? Apparently resizing .357 could possibly work according to this but I've never even heard of casting bullets before so idk how hard it is https://www.thefreelibrary.com/amp/Feed ... 0243718821


* Is anything I do done not stupidly? @dodint @slappybrown @Algernon @shmenguin

[dodint]

@Shyster

[Shyster]

I don't do it, but casting isn't that difficult, relatively speaking. It's not a more complicated process than handloading ammo. Because you're dealing with molten lead, however, it can be dangerous, and you are dealing with lead fumes and the possibility of contamination. It does require a fair amount of equipment: furnace, pots, dippers and ladles, skimmers, molds, handles, etc. And of course you need a well-ventilated place to do the casting. Then you need a lubricator/sizer to lube the bullets and size them consistently. Just ballparking, but I think it would probably take about $300–$500 for a complete setup to cast lead rifle bullets.

If you just want to try the "resize handgun bullets" route, you could buy lead handgun bullets and run them through a resizer. You'd need a sturdy press to do that, and one the bullets are sized you have to load them yourself. Do you currently handload?

How much do you plan to shoot it? Grafs has two different 8x56R Hungarian Mannlicher loads from Prvi Partizan on sale for $1.02 per round, which is actually less per round than something like a lot of .30-06 loads (especially hunting loads). Grafs also has brass and bullets from Prvi Partizan, and the prices for those aren't all that bad. A bag of 100 8x56R 208gr .330 FMJBT bullets comes out to $0.31 per bullet, which is roughly comparable to what you'd pay to buy decent hunting-grade .30 caliber bullets to feed a .308. Not cheap, but not outrageously expensive, either.

[Shyster]

Speaking of handloading, I just got in an order from Grafs. They're running a sale on the French Vectan powders, so I stocked up and bought 10 more half-kilo bottles. I really like the stuff. It meters well but isn't so fine that it leaks out of my powder measure, and seems to burn pretty cleanly and consistently. I also picked up a bottle of Hodgdon Trail Boss powder to try out. It's a powder specifically designed to be really bulky and consume a lot of space per weight. It's main intended use is for shooting lead bullets in revolver cartridges—particularly old cartridges like .45 Colt and .44-40 Win. that originated in the blackpowder era—where a load of modern powder only fills a small part of the case. The bulky Trail Boss fills up the entire case and makes it functionally impossible to double-charge a round. To show how bulky it is, Hodgdon uses standard plastic bottles for its powder. The bottle of HP-38 powder I bought a while back held a full pound with a couple inches of airspace at the top. The same size bottle filled to the brim holds only 9 oz. of Trail Boss.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

I don't do it, but casting isn't that difficult, relatively speaking. It's not a more complicated process than handloading ammo. Because you're dealing with molten lead, however, it can be dangerous, and you are dealing with lead fumes and the possibility of contamination. It does require a fair amount of equipment: furnace, pots, dippers and ladles, skimmers, molds, handles, etc. And of course you need a well-ventilated place to do the casting. Then you need a lubricator/sizer to lube the bullets and size them consistently. Just ballparking, but I think it would probably take about $300–$500 for a complete setup to cast lead rifle bullets.

If you just want to try the "resize handgun bullets" route, you could buy lead handgun bullets and run them through a resizer. You'd need a sturdy press to do that, and one the bullets are sized you have to load them yourself. Do you currently handload?

I don't have the gun yet, it's still being shipped to a local shop. But I don't plan on melting/moving the lead myself, I think I'll just buy lead bullets and resize the casing

How much do you plan to shoot it? Grafs has two different 8x56R Hungarian Mannlicher loads from Prvi Partizan on sale for $1.02 per round, which is actually less per round than something like a lot of .30-06 loads (especially hunting loads). Grafs also has brass and bullets from Prvi Partizan, and the prices for those aren't all that bad. A bag of 100 8x56R 208gr .330 FMJBT bullets comes out to $0.31 per bullet, which is roughly comparable to what you'd pay to buy decent hunting-grade .30 caliber bullets to feed a .308. Not cheap, but not outrageously expensive, either.

Wait, where are you seeing the $.31 bullets? All I could find are the Prvi Partizan bullets for $1 a round which I think is relatively expensive

[Shyster]

Wait, where are you seeing the $.31 bullets? All I could find are the Prvi Partizan bullets for $1 a round which I think is relatively expensive

To be clear, when I said "bullets," I mean bullets as handloading components, not loaded ammunition. Bullets are here:

PRVI PARTIZAN BULLET 8x56R (.330) 208gr FMJBT 100/BAG
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... ctId/12618

Brass is here:
Prvi Partizan Brass 8x56R Hungarian Mannlicher Unprimed Bag of 100
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... ctId/12658

Loaded ammo is here:
PRVI PARTIZAN AMMO 8x56R HUNGARIAN MANN. 208gr FMJBT
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... ctId/12592

PRVI PARTIZAN AMMO 8x56R HUNGARIAN MANN. 208gr SP
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... oductId/96

Grafs is currently offering a sale where the loaded ammo is $19.31 per box of 20 rounds if you order 3 or more boxes. That strikes me as a pretty good price. There are also bulk-order offers on the individual brass and bullets, but even at the prices offered for ordering 1,000 of each, they would still come out to $1.00 per round ($0.72 per piece of brass and $0.28 per bullet), and that's without factoring in the prices of primers and powder. It costs less to buy the loaded ammo than to buy the components.

[tifosi77]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzwY6jIwr2o

Tl;dr -- 10 seconds of bullet flight time.

[Morkle]

Love stuff like that. One of my goals is to just hit a 500 yard shot. 2.2 miles is insane.

[Morkle]

Except when do they show the actual shot?

[tifosi77]

Shooter had to adjust optics for an aim point something like 450 above the target. Max magnification possible was only 8x, because any higher and the target would not be visible in the glass.

[tifosi77]

I don't think there is any unclassified footage of the actual shot.

[Shyster]

Gun sites on the internet have been reporting over the last week or so that the SIG P320 may fire when dropped. It started when the Dallas Police Department temporarily withdrew their approval for officers to carry the P320 on duty because the department had heard rumors that the gun wasn’t drop safe. SIG said those rumors exaggerated and noted that the DPD had not experienced any unintentional discharges. But the issue led gun writers and bloggers to start doing their own testing, and multiple sources have now said that they've gotten the P320 to discharge by dropping it on the back of the slide. Here's one such test by the folks who run the popular thetruthaboutguns.com (TTAG) site:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8Oz6krEH_I

Ouch. TTAG is now reporting that SIG will be offering a "Voluntary Trigger Upgrade" for the P320 starting next week.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/0 ... 0-pistols/

[Morkle]

Still love SIG always and forever, glad I own the 250 though lol.

[mac5155]

I totally missed the "removed the bullets" part of that and thought those guys are bat **** nuts

[dodint]

One of my goals is to just hit a 500 yard shot.

With what? That's a standard shot with 5.56 and iron sights using an M16/AR15. In the prone, anyway. Probably could do it fairly easily in the sitting and kneeling. Might take me a few in the standing.

[Morkle]

With anything really. The challenge around here in Pittsburgh is actually finding a 500 yard spot to set up. I've only ever seen a max of 200, and that's easy to hit.

I've hit with my 5.56, AK, and M1A all at that range.

[dodint]

Ah, yeah, I guess that would be an issue. My range in NC had a 500 yard course. They bought an old farm and built it into a huge range. Standard 200 and 500, then the pistol range, and then they also setup a Cowboy Shoot course.

The 500 is a pain because it's not automated and they don't have the staff to send someone down to work the targets full time. So you just shoot for like an hour and then they send a guy on an ATV to go down and replace the target.

[Morkle]

There's a place out in Ohio apparently that does long range shoots, but I need to get a solid piece of glass too for my M1A, as that's the one I'm going to build further.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

Wait, where are you seeing the $.31 bullets? All I could find are the Prvi Partizan bullets for $1 a round which I think is relatively expensive

To be clear, when I said "bullets," I mean bullets as handloading components, not loaded ammunition. Bullets are here:

PRVI PARTIZAN BULLET 8x56R (.330) 208gr FMJBT 100/BAG
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... ctId/12618

Brass is here:
Prvi Partizan Brass 8x56R Hungarian Mannlicher Unprimed Bag of 100
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... ctId/12658

Loaded ammo is here:
PRVI PARTIZAN AMMO 8x56R HUNGARIAN MANN. 208gr FMJBT
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... ctId/12592

PRVI PARTIZAN AMMO 8x56R HUNGARIAN MANN. 208gr SP
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... oductId/96

Grafs is currently offering a sale where the loaded ammo is $19.31 per box of 20 rounds if you order 3 or more boxes. That strikes me as a pretty good price. There are also bulk-order offers on the individual brass and bullets, but even at the prices offered for ordering 1,000 of each, they would still come out to $1.00 per round ($0.72 per piece of brass and $0.28 per bullet), and that's without factoring in the prices of primers and powder. It costs less to buy the loaded ammo than to buy the components.

the strategy I read for building my own rounds isn't to get 8x56r brass and bullets and combining them but getting .357 brass and bullets and re-sizing the brass so it'll fit the .329 bore of the m95, here: https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Feeding+ ... 0243718821

I just have no idea if this is a legitimate thing to do or safe.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

Ah, yeah, I guess that would be an issue. My range in NC had a 500 yard course. They bought an old farm and built it into a huge range. Standard 200 and 500, then the pistol range, and then they also setup a Cowboy Shoot course.

The 500 is a pain because it's not automated and they don't have the staff to send someone down to work the targets full time. So you just shoot for like an hour and then they send a guy on an ATV to go down and replace the target.

is what you're referring to this guy? https://www.google.com/maps/place/Holly ... 77.8094056

I was considering going there once I get my rifle

[dodint]

Nope.

http://www.sureshotgunsports.com/

Back on 101 past Havelock.

Fantastic facility and a good gunsmith. I had them do some work on my Tec-9. Magazine would fall out while firing.

[Shyster]

the strategy I read for building my own rounds isn't to get 8x56r brass and bullets and combining them but getting .357 brass and bullets and re-sizing the brass so it'll fit the .329 bore of the m95, here: https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Feeding+ ... 0243718821

No, you'd still need suitable 8x56R brass. That article describes the author resizing lead .357 handgun bullets down to .329 in order to load them in suitable brass. He uses a Lee bullet-sizing die to swage the lead handgun bullets down to the smaller diameter. The author mentions that he purchased and used brass online that had been reformed from Remington .45-70 cases. A .357 magnum handgun case would be way too small to form into a 8x56R case.

I see RCBS offers a sizing-die expander spindle that can be used in conjunction with a their 8x56R Hungarian full-length sizing die in order to convert 7.62×54mmR Russian cases into 8x56R Hungarian cases. Not sure whether you'd need to trim them. They probably shouldn't need neck turning or reaming because you'd be sizing the necks up, not down. You might need to anneal the necks, though. Also, the Russian cases have a sharper neck than the 8x56R, so I bet there's a fire-forming step involved to blow out the shoulder.

I don't know how much reloading experience you have, but it would be much less of a hassle to just buy the ready-made Prvi Partizan brass than it would be to form the brass yourself.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

the strategy I read for building my own rounds isn't to get 8x56r brass and bullets and combining them but getting .357 brass and bullets and re-sizing the brass so it'll fit the .329 bore of the m95, here: https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Feeding+ ... 0243718821

No, you'd still need suitable 8x56R brass. That article describes the author resizing lead .357 handgun bullets down to .329 in order to load them in suitable brass. He uses a Lee bullet-sizing die to swage the lead handgun bullets down to the smaller diameter. The author mentions that he purchased and used brass online that had been reformed from Remington .45-70 cases. A .357 magnum handgun case would be way too small to form into a 8x56R case.

I see RCBS offers a sizing-die expander spindle that can be used in conjunction with a their 8x56R Hungarian full-length sizing die in order to convert 7.62×54mmR Russian cases into 8x56R Hungarian cases. Not sure whether you'd need to trim them. They probably shouldn't need neck turning or reaming because you'd be sizing the necks up, not down. You might need to anneal the necks, though. Also, the Russian cases have a sharper neck than the 8x56R, so I bet there's a fire-forming step involved to blow out the shoulder.

I don't know how much reloading experience you have, but it would be much less of a hassle to just buy the ready-made Prvi Partizan brass than it would be to form the brass yourself.

ah you're right I misread

and yeah, my reloading experience is null. I know at least I'm going to start out with the premade Prvi Partizan rounds and worry about long term after

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

I'm just curious, how much does everyone pay on average for rounds for their current arsenal?

I want to hold onto the M95 for at least a year but if the price of the ammo is getting to me I might try to trade it for something with cheaper ammo

[Morkle]

Depends on rounds.

I usually don't go over .35 cents a round for any caliber I shoot.