Greatest sports records

[columbia]

Obviously you need an extraordinary amount of talent to be able to get a hit in 56 straight games, but to say talent is the only thing you need to do it is very wrong. There was certainly a large amount of luck involved in the 56 game streak.

How much luck? How many lucky hits did he get? How many of those hits were hard hit balls? It's possible someone has researched this. There is a luck aspect, but I doubt we can quantify it because of lack of tape.

his individual hits didn't have to be lucky for it to be a lucky streak. every one of them could have been 500 foot home runs. that's not the point.

If each hit was a hard hit ball, then luck plays very little part. Not not part, just a smaller part.

you're describing a sport that doesn't exist.

dimaggio was a .357 hitter that year. and .352 the prior year. and .305 the following year. stringing together 56 games, given his batting average, was a statistical bolt of lightning (see what columbia posted a couple pages back). he could play a thousand careers and never do that again.

Which - to me - is why it was/is such a phenomenal and impossible event to understand....it never should have happened and (very likely) never will again.

[shmenguin]

How much luck? How many lucky hits did he get? How many of those hits were hard hit balls? It's possible someone has researched this. There is a luck aspect, but I doubt we can quantify it because of lack of tape.

his individual hits didn't have to be lucky for it to be a lucky streak. every one of them could have been 500 foot home runs. that's not the point.

If each hit was a hard hit ball, then luck plays very little part. Not not part, just a smaller part.

you're describing a sport that doesn't exist.

dimaggio was a .357 hitter that year. and .352 the prior year. and .305 the following year. stringing together 56 games, given his batting average, was a statistical bolt of lightning (see what columbia posted a couple pages back). he could play a thousand careers and never do that again.

Which - to me - is why it was/is such a phenomenal and impossible event to understand....it never should have happened and (very likely) never will again.

i agree.

[MWB]

I guess my point is this: please show me how much luck he had. Like, was his BABIP extraordinarily high or something? This is kind of a pointless argument without actually going into detail. Although some might argue this is pretty pointless anyway lol

Show me that he had no luck at all and it was all pure skill.

Lol I already said there is always some luck, in all of these feats. It just seems like he's discounting the whole thing saying it was mostly luck. Correct me if I'm wrong

i don't know if it's mostly luck. i know that it's significantly more luck than the other achievements on the table. that's all i'm saying.

I guess our point is that how can you possibly know it is significantly more lucky. Unless you're saying it is just because it is a streak, which you don't seem to be saying.

[MWB]

Like I said earlier, the luck factor of his hitting during that streak can't really be determined like it could be today, because we lack the evidence. So asking to prove or disprove his luck can't happen.

[shmenguin]

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archive ... f-streaks/

Purcell calculated that to make it likely (probability greater than 50 percent) that a run of even fifty games will occur once in the history of baseball up to now (and fifty-six is a lot more than fifty in this kind of league), baseball’s rosters would have to include either four lifetime .400 batters or fifty-two lifetime .350 batters over careers of one thousand games. In actuality, only three men have lifetime batting averages in excess of .350, and no one is anywhere near .400 (Ty Cobb at .367, Rogers Hornsby at .358, and Shoeless Joe Jackson at .356). DiMaggio’s streak is the most extraordinary thing that ever happened in American sports.

the streak should never have happened, and isn't consistent with dimaggio's ability. or anyone's really. that's why it was significantly more lucky than the other thing's on the table.

[shmenguin]

Like I said earlier, the luck factor of his hitting during that streak can't really be determined like it could be today, because we lack the evidence. So asking to prove or disprove his luck can't happen.

you're looking at this in an odd way. i think what you're saying is that, because each individual hit may have been legitimate, we can't apply the notion of luck to the streak. which is just a complete disconnect with the idea of statistics.

[iamjs]

Glenn Hall's 502 game consecutive games played streak will never be broken in today's NHL. At the time, the record spanned 7+ seasons.

Even with some research, I couldn't find who had previously held the record or what the former record was.

[tifosi77]

Glenn Hall's 502 game consecutive games played streak will never be broken in today's NHL. At the time, the record spanned 7+ seasons.

Even with some research, I couldn't find who had previously held the record or what the former record was.

Especially with the advent of platoon goaltending, as mikey pointed out earlier. It has been like 40 years since the last time a goaltender even played every game for a season, let alone every game for their team across multiple consecutive seasons.

[tifosi77]

Curious to know how people view the NHL scoring streaks of Gretzky and Lemieux as compared to the DiMaggio hit streak.

[mikey]

Glenn Hall's 502 game consecutive games played streak will never be broken in today's NHL. At the time, the record spanned 7+ seasons.

Even with some research, I couldn't find who had previously held the record or what the former record was.

I don't know the answer to this exactly. But Charlie Gardiner's 276 games straight came to mind before his untimely passing...

[mikey]

Glenn Hall's 502 game consecutive games played streak will never be broken in today's NHL. At the time, the record spanned 7+ seasons.

Even with some research, I couldn't find who had previously held the record or what the former record was.

Especially with the advent of platoon goaltending, as mikey pointed out earlier. It has been like 40 years since the last time a goaltender even played every game for a season, let alone every game for their team across multiple consecutive seasons.

For sure, and too, Hall is not given credit for probably another 40 or 50 straight playoff games in there as well...threw up before every single one of them too...

[iamjs]

I will admit to doing my search by phone and didn't use Google News. Or if I dip into the history section of HF, I'll probably find somebody who knows the record off the top of their head.

I know that place has a bad rap with some people, but the history section is all business.

[MWB]

Like I said earlier, the luck factor of his hitting during that streak can't really be determined like it could be today, because we lack the evidence. So asking to prove or disprove his luck can't happen.

you're looking at this in an odd way. i think what you're saying is that, because each individual hit may have been legitimate, we can't apply the notion of luck to the streak. which is just a complete disconnect with the idea of statistics.

I'm definitely not saying you can't apply luck to it. I already said you can. What I'm saying is that if each hit is legit, that reduces the amount of luck significantly. If half the hits were bad hops and bloop singles, that is a large amount of luck.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

yes... what difference does that make? I am not a fantastic (never really tried) bowler, but I know there's a little bit of luck involved with bowling a 300. Having the skills to do something is one thing, but being able to go on the run that he went on, which has never and likely will never be done again... there's a good bit of luck involved. I don't understand what's so hard to understand that he had a bit of luck to do what he did. For me that doesn't dismiss his record in any way. It seems like for shmenguin it does a bit, but so be it.

You're changing your argument.


MWB, ulf and I agree that there is a great deal of luck. We do not agree that there was "significantly more luck" which you and shmenguin seem to think.

I asked if you played baseball because I don't think non baseball players understand what goes to into hitting a baseball, but you did play baseball so it's different.

[tifosi77]

For sure, and too, Hall is not given credit for probably another 40 or 50 straight playoff games in there as well...threw up before every single one of them too...

Ugh.... last beer league I played in, our best played would uke on the bench at least once a game. The guy was unreal..... Cuban immigrant parents, we naturally called him the 'Cuban Missile' and when he'd throw up..... well, you get the idea.

[count2infinity]

yes... what difference does that make? I am not a fantastic (never really tried) bowler, but I know there's a little bit of luck involved with bowling a 300. Having the skills to do something is one thing, but being able to go on the run that he went on, which has never and likely will never be done again... there's a good bit of luck involved. I don't understand what's so hard to understand that he had a bit of luck to do what he did. For me that doesn't dismiss his record in any way. It seems like for shmenguin it does a bit, but so be it.

You're changing your argument.


MWB, ulf and I agree that there is a great deal of luck. We do not agree that there was "significantly more luck" which you and shmenguin seem to think.

I asked if you played baseball because I don't think non baseball players understand what goes to into hitting a baseball, but you did play baseball so it's different.

Do the statistics... it's astounding.

[shmenguin]

Experience playing baseball: irrelevant
Understanding what goes into getting a hit: irrelevant

You still aren't getting it

[Craig]

The streak showed he hit the ball consistently and didnt face bad luck.

he had exceptional luck, in addition to not having bad luck

A guy batting .400 over a period of time that gets 1 hit per game is not lucky. A guy hitting .400 that doesnt get a hit per game is unlucky.

[MWB]

Experience playing baseball: irrelevant
Understanding what goes into getting a hit: irrelevant

You still aren't getting it

What is the relevant part of the luck factor then? I am definitely not getting it, I admit.

[Craig]

I thought i was going to out ridiculous everyone with that post, but having caught up, i realize i fell short. I dont know what the argument is. Luck makes the streak less significant?

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

I thought i was going to out ridiculous everyone with that post, but having caught up, i realize i fell short. I dont know what the argument is. Luck makes the streak less significant?

That's the feeling I get from their posts. Or that they claim it required a "significant more amount of luck" which to me makes them think it lessens the greatness of the record.

I think this is just a agree to disagree situation

[count2infinity]

I don't think it lessens the streak for me... it just makes it all the more incredible.

[tifosi77]

It would be interesting to look at the game recaps (if available) from DiMaggio's streak and look at all the 1-hit games and see how many times those hits could be attributed to luck.

Been reading a bit about the streak and have learned a few fun facts:
- Not getting to 57 games cost him a $10,000 endorsement deal from Heinz (57 Sauce)
- He never bunted during the streak
- His only hit on July 2 (the day Lou Gherig died) was a homer vs Boston

And perhaps most relevant to the discussion: Colombia posted the statistical breakdown of just what a rare bird that MLB streak is..... now put that in the context of knowing the same player had a 61-game hitting streak in a minor professional league before becoming a big leaguer.

[MWB]

Another interesting one related - Ted Williams reached base in 84 straight games. Not sure if that would be considered more or less lucky.

[MWB]

It would be interesting to look at the game recaps (if available) from DiMaggio's streak and look at all the 1-hit games and see how many times those hits could be attributed to luck.

You'd really need video as opposed to a recap to properly evaluate.