yes yes, fair enough.
they also don't do themselves any favors by treating self-driving as imminent. highways and cities-only for another decade, I reckon
well...we put up with the unusual service model because the car doesn't need serviced.dodint wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:30 am My only axe to grind with Tesla is that their service practices are really incompatible with lemon laws in a way that makes them open to legal action. I don't think it matters so much right now because many Tesla owners enjoy being in the cult of it so they'll put up with the unusual service model. But if they ever do get widespread market share to a more general customer they're going to need to tighten that up. But I suppose that broader market share will come with more service centers which will help.
I do admire their direct-to-consumer sales model and I hope that takes hold with traditional manufacturers over time.
I'll do it for the benefit of everyone anyway. It's so rare that I get to contribute anything of value.
Tesla has the practice of taking defective customer cars and shipping them off to regional service centers for extended periods of time. Presumably, because they don't have the resources at each showroom to handle extensive repairs. The customer is usually given a loaner car that is similar or better than what they have so it's generally not a big deal. By the letter of the lemon law, if the customer chooses to file an action after 30 cumulative days of their car being away they're entitled to a buyback or replacement.Section 6. Presumption of a reasonable number of attempts.
(a) General rule.--It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been undertaken to repair or correct a nonconformity if:
(1) the same nonconformity has been subject to repair three times by the manufacturer, its agents or authorized dealers and the nonconformity still exists; or
(2) the vehicle is out-of-service by reason of any nonconformity for a cumulative total of 30 or more calendar days.
Tesla has been pretty aggressive in opposing those suits. Again, I think they'll grow into it over time and just haven't reached that maturity level yet. But in the meantime they're exposed to this kind of litigation.Section 5. Manufacturer's duty for refund or replacement.
If the manufacturer fails to repair or correct a nonconformity after a reasonable number of attempts, the manufacturer shall, at the option of the purchaser, replace the motor vehicle with a comparable motor vehicle of equal value or accept return of the vehicle from the purchaser and refund to the purchaser the full purchase price or lease price, including all collateral charges, less a reasonable allowance for the purchaser's use of the vehicle not exceeding 10¢ per mile driven or 10% of the purchase price or lease price of the vehicle, whichever is less.
That’s all reasonable but it’s not a matter of acceptance or overlooking...these things just don’t enter the equation, so there’s a level of ignorance involved.dodint wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:40 am My exact words were: My only axe to grind with Tesla is that their service practices are really incompatible with lemon laws in a way that makes them open to legal action.
You keep talking about user experience and cults. The only reason I said 'cult' at all was because it speaks directly to why the negatives of their service model doesn't hurt their bottom line; the user base accepts the defective process to enable their enjoyment of the brand. If each time a Toyota Corolla broke down it disappeared for 4-6 weeks you'd hear endless shrieking.
It’s like...do you like living in America vs Saudi Arabia - even though Ted Cruz is a thing? Yes I do.
I think Tesla calling it autopilot was a major mistake and many of the issues that came from it are self-inflicted because of that naming convention, imo.shmenguin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:16 pm “If it breaks, it’s gonna be a problem, but I will now list nothing about what the car is actually like, other than using the wrong terminology about “auto pilot”.”
Teslas are fun as f*** and they’re awesome unless they break. Which isn’t some epidemic. I know many owners personally and none of them ever had an issue like in this thread.
It’s a dumb thread that focuses on niche experiences and doesn’t actually talk about the experience of owning/driving one.
“Autopilot” is not autonomous driving. It’s advanced cruise control which is simply amazing. “Full self driving” is the 10k add on nobody buys and nobody thinks is actually “self driving”. The car yells at you and shuts down if you treat it as such.
There's Autopilot and there's Full Self DrivingMorkle wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:45 pmI think Tesla calling it autopilot was a major mistake and many of the issues that came from it are self-inflicted because of that naming convention, imo.shmenguin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:16 pm “If it breaks, it’s gonna be a problem, but I will now list nothing about what the car is actually like, other than using the wrong terminology about “auto pilot”.”
Teslas are fun as f*** and they’re awesome unless they break. Which isn’t some epidemic. I know many owners personally and none of them ever had an issue like in this thread.
It’s a dumb thread that focuses on niche experiences and doesn’t actually talk about the experience of owning/driving one.
“Autopilot” is not autonomous driving. It’s advanced cruise control which is simply amazing. “Full self driving” is the 10k add on nobody buys and nobody thinks is actually “self driving”. The car yells at you and shuts down if you treat it as such.