NFL

[mikey]

I feel like voter fatigue doesn't start at 1...

You'd be surprised... Hart for Crosby in '13 and Mario in '89? jump to mind for me.

Neither of those were fatigue for me. Crosby missed a quarter of the season and Ovechkin finished very strong. It's not at all defensible in my opinion, but that's life...but it wasn't fatigue, Crosby only had one Hart and it was back in 2007. He didn't really play the previous two seasons even.

Lemieux one is tricky...but Gretzky went to LA took them from a last place team into a playoff team, There was like a 25-30 point jump in the standings or whatever. They became the league's #1 offense. Pittsburgh more or less had performed the same as the previous season.

I'm not justifying that one either, but I can see why it happened. Gretzky went to a big market and the team became relevant for basically the first time ever...that's a big deal.

Jordan not winning for basically any year of his prime is an example of voter fatigue...
Orr not winning every Pearson is voter fatigue...
I don't know what LeBron's MVP record is, but I imagine there are years he didn't win that he probably could have...

[JC2]

I'm just being argumentative today.

Does the Hart stand for Most Valuable player or the best player? Because I feel voters change their definition of it every year to simply justify who they want to win.

[mikey]

Most valuable. Though, sometimes it bleeds into best...to your point.

But if 66 had fatigue in '89, he'd have had it in '93 when voters could have easily went with Gilmour instead...

[LITT]

I would have put gates in over Andre Johnson

[Nuge]

I’ll take Lemieux over gates or Johnson

[willeyeam]

Not really voter fatigue. But TJ leads the league in sacks every year he's healthy, so it's just gotta be extraordinary now to give it to him

[Ad@m]

[tifosi77]

It's like he gets tax credits for being stupid out loud.

[DigitalGypsy66]

Brain dead.

[Pavel Bure]

CTESPN is alive and well

[genoscoif]

Yes, but...

This is why these specific analytics are frustrating to me...especially given what I do / have done IRL. He's referencing the win rate and double team % that we were discussing here as justification for him or Garret being the best, and TJ I guess being trash (not top 5 is an obvious shot). They don't mean what you think they mean, Micah. The double team stat broke out to 2 or 3 more pass plays a game. The win rate......what did you do after you beat the block? Did you make a play? Did you drive an outcome?

Moneyball broke everyone's brain. It's like we have a bunch of bastardized versions of 'He gets on base' analytics that are trying to tell a story regardless of the results. A good data story incorporates the results in the analysis. 'He gets on base' works because the goal of every at bat is to get on base or advance someone who is already on base. The metric itself is tied to measuring the result, then the analysis story is evaluating and explaining the 'how'.

The goal of a pass rusher isn't to 'beat the block'. That's not 'getting on base'. Sacks, pressures, and QB hits... that's your goal. This stat that they keep referencing is flawed in it's design. It's the equivalent of 'he's really good at working the count in his favor'. Look, he didn't get on base as much, but just look at how many times he had 2-0, 2-1, 3-1, and 3-0 counts!!!

So, yes Micah, you and Garrett are better at the Madden mini-game. TJ is a better defensive football player in terms of results. I don't know...I think I just really hate this metric.

[LeopardLetang]

They shouldn't judge receivers by receptions but by the amount of time they were open during pass plays

[tifosi77]

VJT993 (a VistaJet Bombardier BD-700 registered as 9H-VTD) completed its flight from Tokyo-Haneda to LAX just after 3:30 this afternoon. Callsign: "The Football Era"

We are saved.

[Ad@m]

JFC this was tough to watch.

[nocera]

[meow]

ALS scares the **** out of me

[Troy Loney]

My uncle had it, saw what it does up close. Terrible.

[skullman80]

Had a close coworker who had it. Just awful to watch someone decline and become someone completely different. Awful disease.

[Orlando Penguin]

Anyone catch the documentary CBS did on the old NFL Today?

[skullman80]

Go 49ers!

[tifosi77]

9ers enter to For Whom The Bell Tolls. \m/

[tifosi77]

Anyone catch the documentary CBS did on the old NFL Today?

Nope, but I'm a sucker for that stuff. Is it online yet?

[skullman80]

9ers enter to For Whom The Bell Tolls. \m/

It’s like they know who my favorite band is. lol.

[Trip McNeely]

Post Malone with an excellent version there

[Orlando Penguin]

Anyone catch the documentary CBS did on the old NFL Today?

Nope, but I'm a sucker for that stuff. Is it online yet?

I DVR'd it to watch closer to pregame but I'd imagine it'll make its way on Paramount+ at some point if it's not already. It was done pretty well and could have easily gone more than an hour.