Religion Discussion Thread

[columbia]

Oh, please do start one.

[Kaiser]

Motion to change the name of the thread to Religion Bashing Thread.

Pretty much.

I do bash religion, but I'm more interested in learning why people can still do this. I don't get that perspective. it seems to me we should be moving on by now, but we may never.

[shafnutz05]

I don't think scientific advances/discoveries and religion are mutually exclusive. Then again, I'm also not one of those people that thinks the earth is 6,000 years old either.

[dodint]

I'm pleased my implied question about the nature of perpetual Christian suffering went unacknowledged. I'll chalk it up to one of the many things religion can't address when challenged.

[shafnutz05]

I'm pleased my implied question about the nature of perpetual Christian suffering went unacknowledged. I'll chalk it up to one of the many things religion can't address when challenged.

From my understanding, if you die a non-believer, you spend the rest of days away from God, until the Judgment. At that point, that's when the lake of fire stuff comes. So it's a pretty legitimately bad fate for those that turn away from acknowledging Christ as the savior. But again, I'm not an expert.

[Silentom]

Nirvana_lake_of_fire.youtube

[count2infinity]

What if those that believe get their heaven and those that don't get nothingness... no awareness of even being dead or an afterlife at all. That's about as far away from god as you can be. Which in that case, I guess everyone is right. F*ck it... muslims get their 72 virgins too.

[robbiestoupe]

NirvanaMeat Puppets_lake_of_fire.youtube

FIFY

[Freddy Rumsen]

Hell, in Christian orthodoxy, is not the absence of God, but the absence of God's mercy. Full wrath, full-time, forever.

[columbia]

That doesn’t sound fun.

[robbiestoupe]

Not making a joke here, it's something I've never understood.

My understanding of 'punishment for eternity' is spending it wallowing in the inglorious absence of God's presence. Now, if I didn't happen to revere God in the first place I don't see this is much of a punishment. It's difficult to endlessly yearn for something I never cared for or even validated in the first place.

I'll concede that if I did die and was made positively aware of God and then never got to actually benefit from that knowledge it would create a difficulty, but I'm not sure if it could be defined as suffering.

I'll give it a hack. I think of it more that you are denying your Maker (RIP Lane Staley). If you end up being wrong, you've spent your entire life lying to yourself and believing a lie. I believe some people are arrogant/angry/bitter/calloused enough that they wouldn't even care if they knew the truth. I'm not going to pretend to know what really happens to all of us when we die (anybody who does say they know is fooling themselves), but perhaps that is where the line is drawn between eternal suffering and eternal glory.

Addressing Kaiser's astonishment that religion is still a thing. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum where I'm astonished that so many non-believers buy into the "God doesn't exist" theory. The more I understand the human body, animal interaction, outer space, etc. the more I am baffled that people believe that these things came to be just by chance. It absolutely astounds me. Some of the smartest people the world has ever seen, and the best thing they can come up with is more unbelievable than a miracle itself.

It also puts the human mind at the top of the god spectrum. Only humans can possess the knowledge, either now or in the future, of what the universe is. Only human language, be it words, mathematics, science, is wise enough to know the deepest understandings of the world we live in.

[Kaiser]

Addressing Kaiser's astonishment that religion is still a thing. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum where I'm astonished that so many non-believers buy into the "God doesn't exist" theory. The more I understand the human body, animal interaction, outer space, etc. the more I am baffled that people believe that these things came to be just by chance. It absolutely astounds me. Some of the smartest people the world has ever seen, and the best thing they can come up with is more unbelievable than a miracle itself.

I'd love hear what you've seen about the universe and animals that makes intelligent design more plausible that either a cyclical natural "creation"
or eternal expansion via the big bang. This by the way is THE question I'm most interested in when I talk to creationists.

[shmenguin]

Addressing Kaiser's astonishment that religion is still a thing. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum where I'm astonished that so many non-believers buy into the "God doesn't exist" theory. The more I understand the human body, animal interaction, outer space, etc. the more I am baffled that people believe that these things came to be just by chance. It absolutely astounds me. Some of the smartest people the world has ever seen, and the best thing they can come up with is more unbelievable than a miracle itself.

I'd love hear what you've seen about the universe and animals that makes intelligent design more plausible that either a cyclical natural "creation"
or eternal expansion via the big bang. This by the way is THE question I'm most interested in when I talk to creationists.

do you ever get interesting answers? there's always the, "it's to test your faith" safety valve to contend with.

[Kaiser]

Addressing Kaiser's astonishment that religion is still a thing. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum where I'm astonished that so many non-believers buy into the "God doesn't exist" theory. The more I understand the human body, animal interaction, outer space, etc. the more I am baffled that people believe that these things came to be just by chance. It absolutely astounds me. Some of the smartest people the world has ever seen, and the best thing they can come up with is more unbelievable than a miracle itself.

I'd love hear what you've seen about the universe and animals that makes intelligent design more plausible that either a cyclical natural "creation"
or eternal expansion via the big bang. This by the way is THE question I'm most interested in when I talk to creationists.

do you ever get interesting answers? there's always the, "it's to test your faith" safety valve to contend with.

Theres that, and the Ken Ham style of making up laws to sidestep physics. Mostly, it just dies because people understand evolution in a backwards way, a way that does make God as plausible.

[columbia]

I don't believe that his post implied a belief in (new Earth) creationism.

[count2infinity]

His "observable" vs. "historical" science definitions still crack me up.

[shafnutz05]

I don't believe that his post implied a belief in (new Earth) creationism.

Bingo. The idea that the universe was designed intelligently is hardly antithetical to the concept of evolution or the Big Bang. I share Robbie's view. I look at the majesty of the universe, and the Earth itself, and look at how utterly perfect so many things are, and it's hard for me to imagine that everything is that way just by chance.

[shmenguin]

has anyone ever released a revised bible that strips out everything that is widely considered (by christians) to be either a metaphor or just plain nonsense? jesus would generally fall under this category, according to pretty much every christian i know, but we can leave him in there.

[shmenguin]

I don't believe that his post implied a belief in (new Earth) creationism.

Bingo. The idea that the universe was designed intelligently is hardly antithetical to the concept of evolution or the Big Bang. I share Robbie's view. I look at the majesty of the universe, and the Earth itself, and look at how utterly perfect so many things are, and it's hard for me to imagine that everything is that way just by chance.

even the most boring, unremarkable parts of your life boil down to a one-in-a-trillion+ chance. the blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

[dodint]

I don't believe that his post implied a belief in (new Earth) creationism.

Bingo. The idea that the universe was designed intelligently is hardly antithetical to the concept of evolution or the Big Bang. I share Robbie's view. I look at the majesty of the universe, and the Earth itself, and look at how utterly perfect so many things are, and it's hard for me to imagine that everything is that way just by chance.

Perhaps your idea of perfection is crafted by the things you see around you. If the world had evolved in a different way you'd find beauty in the way you had defined it under those other conditions.

[shafnutz05]

has anyone ever released a revised bible that strips out everything that is widely considered (by christians) to be either a metaphor or just plain nonsense? jesus would generally fall under this category, according to pretty much every christian i know, but we can leave him in there.

Most Christians you know think that the account of Jesus' birth, life, and death is nonsense? I hate to be that guy, but they are not real Christians

[grunthy]

has anyone ever released a revised bible that strips out everything that is widely considered (by christians) to be either a metaphor or just plain nonsense? jesus would generally fall under this category, according to pretty much every christian i know, but we can leave him in there.

Wait... what?

[shmenguin]

has anyone ever released a revised bible that strips out everything that is widely considered (by christians) to be either a metaphor or just plain nonsense? jesus would generally fall under this category, according to pretty much every christian i know, but we can leave him in there.

Most Christians you know think that the account of Jesus' birth, life, and death is nonsense? I hate to be that guy, but they are not real Christians

i know many churchgoers. they generally do not believe that jesus is the son of god. they think he exists, and that he was a good dude, though. the irony of this belief, of course, is that jesus is either holy, a con man or someone suffering from a severe mental condition like schizophrenia. and honestly if you bring in any grounded reasoning into the equation, it's definitely that last one. so what these people are positing is not what they think they're positing.

whether or not that disqualifies them from Christianity... i figure you need all the members you can get

[slappybrown]

has anyone ever released a revised bible that strips out everything that is widely considered (by christians) to be either a metaphor or just plain nonsense? jesus would generally fall under this category, according to pretty much every christian i know, but we can leave him in there.

Most Christians you know think that the account of Jesus' birth, life, and death is nonsense? I hate to be that guy, but they are not real Christians

i know many churchgoers. they generally do not believe that jesus is the son of god. they think he exists, and that he was a good dude, though. the irony of this belief, of course, is that jesus is either holy, a con man or someone suffering from a severe mental condition like schizophrenia. and honestly if you bring in any grounded reasoning into the equation, it's definitely that last one. so what these people are positing is not what they think they're positing.

whether or not that disqualifies them from Christianity... i figure you need all the members you can get

idontbelieveyouironicallyenough.gif

[grunthy]

has anyone ever released a revised bible that strips out everything that is widely considered (by christians) to be either a metaphor or just plain nonsense? jesus would generally fall under this category, according to pretty much every christian i know, but we can leave him in there.

Most Christians you know think that the account of Jesus' birth, life, and death is nonsense? I hate to be that guy, but they are not real Christians

i know many churchgoers. they generally do not believe that jesus is the son of god. they think he exists, and that he was a good dude, though. the irony of this belief, of course, is that jesus is either holy, a con man or someone suffering from a severe mental condition like schizophrenia. and honestly if you bring in any grounded reasoning into the equation, it's definitely that last one. so what these people are positing is not what they think they're positing.

whether or not that disqualifies them from Christianity... i figure you need all the members you can get

Are these churchgoers Jewish? Because one of the central tenets of being a Christian is believing that he is the son of god.