Fifth Avenue Forum

Today was Ed Carpenter's turn get air

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaZ8QbTZbb0

Are we watching practice for Indy or Reno?

I wouldn't know. My "DVR" doesn't "record" things anymore.

From what I understand the cars are unstable at high speeds because this years specs cut out a piece of the undertray at the front, reducing downforce.

It's interesting because the crashes have all looked pretty much identical; about the time they would be picking up the throttle on corner exit (assuming they even have to lift) the rear end squiggles and off they go out of the groove. They just aren't stuck.

Carpenter said he had no warning at all (as in, no feedback). It just stepped out on him. It's as if the entire field has been reduce to Sato level skill.

I'll say that I've been a big critic of the talent level in Indy. If they put on a 500 where even their select best drivers can't handle going around in circles for 500 miles I'm going to ridicule them very, very hard.

Castroneves is a known quantity. Had to Google it, but both Carpenter and Newgarden are race winners (and EC has an Indy pole to his name). So these guys aren't exactly slouches. If the cars are just immediately breaking away from under the drivers, then that's going to make for a very loltastic 500.

That's exactly what I'm saying. The three incidents we're talking about are from quality drivers. What chance does Francesco Dracone have?

I think I read that all of the crash-and-flips so far have been on cars with the Chevy engine/aero package. Could the Chevy aero have insufficient downforce or some design flaw for cornering?

The trick is that the Aero kits this year have allowed the cars to trim downforce levels at the rear of the car that they couldn't dream of getting to in years prior (with this or the last chassis). The holes in the floor that dodint mentions took a couple hundred pounds of rear downforce away, then Chevy and Honda have been able to use significantly smaller rear wings than past generations due to creating downforce through sidepod configurations and the like.
What I think Helio and Carpenter both ran into ("No indication"), and why we've seen three Chevy's around (2.5, Josef apparently had a puncture) and only Pippa Mann's Honda (in a very different style accident), is that Honda runs a spine down the back of their engine over and end plates on the wing. Those devices when the car enters yaw should slow rotation and give the driver a chance to catch it. It's not that the Honda drivers haven't been trimmed out to similar low levels of downforce, it's just that the car gives a more progressive feel when it enters oversteer.

Both Josef and Ed's rolls after contacting the wall were relatively straight forward, more from the effect of the impact with the wall. Helio's was more a blow-over from the car running in reverse. The full width floor and tunnels on the new Dallara create a ton of downforce when operating the correct direction, but in reverse it appears they can help generate significant lift or least function as a sail to any wind that gets trapped under the car in the initial contact.

James Hinchcliffe this time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50Gs40xtAZs

Anyone hear what happened? Not much to see in the video. Just a little puff from the center of the rear axle (gearbox?) and then up to the wall he went.

http://racing.ap.org/article/indycars-a ... s-indy-500

...maybe, just maybe, the 99th running will be the greatest Indy 500 in history.

Impossible. It's just another spec race now, the greatest Indy 500 was run long ago.

I know that had little to do with the article, but the hyperbole needed correcting.

Okay, poop just got real. I've been a Hinch fan since he was in Atlantics.

On-boards show his right front suspension failed, causing the wreck.

Yeah, just bad luck. Took an arrow to the knee, so to speak.

Wow.

Hinchcliffe almost died.

http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/11693 ... s-injuries

That's the first place I've seen that detailed, but it had been making the rounds in the rumor mill.

As for the article, Jenna is being dramatic again. Helio has said the kits were tested in closed sessions at IMS and TMS, I'm pretty sure RHR had Honda's kit out at Fontana as well. She also hits the low blow with the spectator hit at St. Pete, with a part of the car that's been standard since the DW12 debuted. Aero kits caused a multitude of caution laps for debris, but the wing endplate that came off and was subsequently catapulted into the air by a tire has been used for many years.
Testing wouldn't show the cars as getting airborne, because nobody trims all the way out in testing. Step over the line and you write off the rest of a valuable day gathering data at best, a prototype aero kit tub and possibly a driver at worst.

Wow.

Hinchcliffe almost died.

http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/11693 ... s-injuries

In the impact, which flattened the right side of the chassis, one of the suspension wishbones penetrated the Dallara safety cell, and subsequently caused the majority of the physical damage Hinchcliffe received. RACER has confirmed through multiple sources that Hinchcliffe had the steel wishbone enter and exit his right leg, then enter his upper left thigh, and continue into his pelvic region, where it came to a stop. The suspension component pinned the 28-year-old in the car, leading the safety team to cut the wishbone from the chassis to allow Hinchcliffe's extraction.

Yargh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hRhw4aVYz4
In car at 6:30, no gore but it shows how violently the RF exploded (and you might be able to draw the line from rear side of the upper wishbone to his injuries as the tub looks malformed at it's mount after the collision.

Ouch.

Seek out Hinch's impression of Kimi Raikkonen. Good stuff.

The videos don't seem to be up on the HINCHtown website anymore, but he had some hysterical webcam stuff doing the Raikkonen thing when he (Hinch) was in Atlantics.

Refueling in F1 in 2017? Yay or Nay?

I like the idea of having more happening during a pit stop so the team has to perform at a higher level. The 3 second stops are fantastic but they've got them down pat. That said, it introduces a lot of safety and cost issues. And then it'll reintroduce those stupid Q3 qualifying sessions where some people are trying for pole and others are playing their race fuel strategy. I absolutely loathed that.

Refueling in F1 in 2017? Yay or Nay?

I like the idea of having more happening during a pit stop so the team has to perform at a higher level. The 3 second stops are fantastic but they've got them down pat. That said, it introduces a lot of safety and cost issues. And then it'll reintroduce those stupid Q3 qualifying sessions where some people are trying for pole and others are playing their race fuel strategy. I absolutely loathed that.

Yeah, no thanks. Trying to throw ten gallons in the car per second creates a massive financial and safety issue. Plus the idea of picking any of the four tire compounds will do the same, which Pirelli has already objected to in the past.

I agree with you on the rather silly Q3 strategies as well. It's just not something that excites me in the least.

Refueling hot racing cars is the single stupidest thing F1 has ever done for an extended period of time. You want to add excitement to pitstops? Reduce the number of crew over the wall. Front and rear jacks, one person per corner. There you go. Maybe add one extra person who is only allowed to clear the used outside front tire out of the way so the driver can make a clean exit.

I'd much prefer Alonso's suggestion of a new tire war. I like the way it used to be (not 2005, because of the stupid qually rules) when you could opt to run the whole distance of the race without changing rubber. And in the 80s and 90s you could even mix tire compounds from front to rear. The point being, coming in to the pits should be a detriment to your race time. The only reason they even introduced pitstops as a necessary part of a grand prix (in 1994) was because the sport's TV profile was growing in leaps and bounds, and it provided 1-3 times per race when each car was nice and stationary and all the sponsorship decals could be viewed in their full glory.