Game of Thrones Discussion

Postby **skullman80** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:03 am

That was **** awesome.
The adrenaline wore off this morning, I bet. And you're realizing how much of a pile of dung that episode was. The cgi was top notch, sure. And the Jon/Dany stuff was actually really great. Everything else was born out of something's butt.

I'm really sad about how this is being bungled.
Nope, still awesome.

Agreed. Still really loved last nights episode.

Postby **Staggy** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:07 am

I liked the episode too. The "bring Cersei a wight and pretend like she's not gonna try to murder us all" plan is still bat**** crazy so that dampens it a bit, but on its own last night was really fun.

Postby **Troy Loney** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:15 am

It's just off the rails at this point. I think the hand wringing over the pacing is over the top, but this whole kidnap a wight plan is just dumb. It's dumb because it's being phrased that they need to convince Cersei, the only reason they need to convince Cersei is so she agrees to an armistice. They need her to agree to an armistice so that Dany will take her army north, so now what? Dany saw the ****, get your army and go north, who cares about Cersei and the Lannisters.

Postby **Pavel Bure** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:26 am

From Reddit,

*paraphrasing*

Apparently they didn't think of the biggest danger of all. The night king can just throw his army over the wall one by one.

Postby **shmenguin** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:31 am

From Reddit,

*paraphrasing*

Apparently they didn't think of the biggest danger of all. The night king can just throw his army over the wall one by one.

not sure what you're saying, but my impression is that the wall has some sort of magic deal where once you cross the pylon (which extends out of bounds) into the endzone, you'll explode or something.

Postby **eddy** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:35 am

The ice dragon is going to shoot ice from his mouth and it's going to be awesome, right?

Postby **nocera** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:36 am

I believe he's saying that the Night King is a world champion javelin thrower.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:40 am

I echo shad's sentiment about not envying D&D because their job went from adapting ASOIAF to finishing ASOIAF because GRRM can't figure out how to do it and TV doesn't have the benefit of being able to wait a decade for the next season. So the complaints about plot contrivances or plot armor or whatever the hell else, those things don't really bother me because someway, somehow, we had to get to this point and there was no perfect way to make it happen. Some of it could have been handled better, the show definitely would have benefited from AT LEAST another episode this season, but to me the payoff has been worth it enough to overlook what I see as minor (others would obviously disagree) issues.

If I was to take issue with something in last night's episode, it would be the Arya/Sansa storyline. I believe (hope) it will lead into some kind of scheming that makes sense, but to me there should be more involvement from Bran and Arya has a shitty memory:

- Speaking of Arya and "plot armor" or whatever the hell people like to term it, Arya being given three names by Jaqen H'ghar and then not using them on anyone of purpose while being holed up in a castle occupied by Tywin Lannister is some of the biggest plot armor this show has ever had yet I don't remember anyone dodinting when that happened. Or does that get a pass because it happened in the books as well?

- I've seen theories floated out there that The Night King is a greenseer as well (which to me is more believable than another theory that posits that Bran is actually The Night King) and I'm more inclined to believe it at this point. Dude knew that dragons would be coming and he wanted one.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:41 am

The ice dragon is going to shoot ice from his mouth and it's going to be awesome, right?

Something even better.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:43 am

It's just off the rails at this point. I think the hand wringing over the pacing is over the top, but this whole kidnap a wight plan is just dumb. It's dumb because it's being phrased that they need to convince Cersei, the only reason they need to convince Cersei is so she agrees to an armistice. They need her to agree to an armistice so that Dany will take her army north, so now what? Dany saw the ****, get your army and go north, who cares about Cersei and the Lannisters.

99.9% sure it was stated in the show that they want an armistice to prove to Cersei the true enemy that threatens all of them so the Lannister forces will join in the war against the Army of the Dead.

Postby **the wicked child** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:49 am

I am getting annoyed with the "without book material the show jumped the shark" comments. Did you guys read books 4/5? Those books are kind of terrible, there is no evidence to me that 6/7 will be better (since we'll never get them). GRRM timing in the books is annoyingly slow and jumps around to too many storylines. He will have issues with trying to complete and move along storylines (Dany). And he focused on descriptions of things for waaaaaay too long.

We are still getting plot and story in the show. But at this point in the story, things by necessity are going to move faster. There has to be urgency. We also have less characters than before, so less different POV to spend time on. We are also getting some interesting interactions between characters.

This is mostly coming out of an annoyance because of a friend saying the show has ruined the books for her. GRRM did that himself.

I also hate epic fantasy that adds to much detail and confusion just to draw stuff out - which GRRM does in spades.

This.

They have to try to solve the same problems that Martin is taking an eternity to figure out on his own... He gave them the outline, but even he didn't know how to get there yet.

Maybe he will do a better job... Maybe not. I'm not convinced we'll ever know.

I personally don't gaf about the timing stuff. It's a tv show... I don't want an episode or three of nothing happening just so the timing is more accurate.

Postby **columbia** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:51 am

I don't want an episode or three of nothing happening just so the timing is more accurate.

Cue the Walking Dead...

Postby **shmenguin** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:07 am

the season plays out as such:

✔ 1) jon gets the raven from sam
✔ 2) jon visits dany to get the glass and a zombie fighting buddy
✔ 3) dany says, "pass" on the buddy but "go ahead" on the dragonglass
✔ 4) jon returns north and sniffs out the east watch thing
✔ 5) they start fighting off zombies with new swords
✔ 6) but BFD - they're gonna lose...they're surrounded...but holy deus ex machina batman it's a bunch of dragons swooping in to save the day!
✔ 7) jon has a zombie fighting buddy afterall
✔ 8) the knights king goes off to regroup while some kings landing business is discussed with jon + dany

well...that's a wrap

Postby **nocera** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:07 am

I'm hoping for a whole episode from a raven's POV. Just a raven peacefully flying for 67 minutes to deliver a scroll.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:11 am

Was it considered a deus ex machina when The Vale showed up in the nick of time to save Jon's ass at the Battle of the Bastards? I'm getting confused about when we dodint about the show or just enjoy the show.

Postby **shmenguin** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:18 am

- Speaking of Arya and "plot armor" or whatever the hell people like to term it, Arya being given three names by Jaqen H'ghar and then not using them on anyone of purpose while being holed up in a castle occupied by Tywin Lannister is some of the biggest plot armor this show has ever had yet I don't remember anyone dodinting when that happened. Or does that get a pass because it happened in the books as well?

so you're so fed up with the complaints that you now want people to complain more? interesting plan. and after the last 2 weeks, THIS is the biggest plot armor ever? k. so why do we give this a pass? because arya was like 10 years old and not the chief strategists of the future queen of the world.

- I've seen theories floated out there that The Night King is a greenseer as well (which to me is more believable than another theory that posits that Bran is actually The Night King) and I'm more inclined to believe it at this point. Dude knew that dragons would be coming and he wanted one.

i agree the night king is a greenseer and orchestrated this to get himself a new ride. i thought it was an interesting choice to kill the smaller dragon. that wasn't stationary. and was further away. and wasn't containing 70% of his biggest threats. dude must have some crazy visions to know he wasn't supposed to end the war last night.

Postby **the wicked child** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:19 am

He wanted the WHITE dragon. Symbolism yo.

Postby **shmenguin** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:20 am

Was it considered a deus ex machina when The Vale showed up in the nick of time to save Jon's ass at the Battle of the Bastards? I'm getting confused about when we dodint about the show or just enjoy the show.

"getting" confused?

the Vale intervention was considered that, actually. even though it's not technically "deus ex machina". it's more like, "let's impotently try to convince the viewer the main protagonist is about to die, and then have him saved at LITERALLY the last second". because that sort of timing is normal.

Postby **blackjack68** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:29 am

Postby **Staggy** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:29 am

With the Night King's arm you figure he would have thrown a few javelins at the group while they were huddling on the island. He must have really wanted a dragon.

Also Rhaegal (?) is a total coward. I was really hoping he'd come back for Jon but he peaced the **** out of there as soon as his bro went down. He wasn't even shown at Eastwatch so he probably just fled right back to Dragonstone.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:36 am

Was it considered a deus ex machina when The Vale showed up in the nick of time to save Jon's ass at the Battle of the Bastards? I'm getting confused about when we dodint about the show or just enjoy the show.
"getting" confused?

the Vale intervention was considered that, actually. even though it's not technically "deus ex machina". it's more like, "let's impotently try to convince the viewer the main protagonist is about to die, and then have him saved at LITERALLY the last second". because that sort of timing is normal.

So basically the same thing as last night, except an army instead of dragons?

- Speaking of Arya and "plot armor" or whatever the hell people like to term it, Arya being given three names by Jaqen H'ghar and then not using them on anyone of purpose while being holed up in a castle occupied by Tywin Lannister is some of the biggest plot armor this show has ever had yet I don't remember anyone dodinting when that happened. Or does that get a pass because it happened in the books as well?
so you're so fed up with the complaints that you now want people to complain more? interesting plan. and after the last 2 weeks, THIS is the biggest plot armor ever? k. so why do we give this a pass? because arya was like 10 years old and not the chief strategists of the future queen of the world.

Not at all. Just illustrating that plot armor has existed in this show from the very beginning. It's not unique to this season, exists in all mediums of fiction story telling, and who gives a **** because it's an awesome and enjoyable TV show.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:38 am

Also Rhaegal (?) is a total coward. I was really hoping he'd come back for Jon but he peaced the **** out of there as soon as his bro went down. He wasn't even shown at Eastwatch so he probably just fled right back to Dragonstone.

Dany only has control over Drogon. The other two would follow the lead of her and their larger sibling, but without a rider they're just willful participants who still have a mind of their own.

Postby **nocera** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:42 am

Source of the post It's not unique to this season, exists in all mediums of non-fiction story telling, and who gives a **** because it's an awesome and enjoyable TV show.

I'm with you, but I had no idea Game of Thrones was based on real events. This is now officially my favorite nonfiction story.

Postby **eddy** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:42 am

you can still enjoy the show and complain about it. I love it, I think it's one of the best things on TV (Twin Peaks is currently top on the best of everything list). I look forward to watching every week, but that doesn't mean there can't be some ridiculous things going on for us to dodint about.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:43 am

Source of the post It's not unique to this season, exists in all mediums of non-fiction story telling, and who gives a **** because it's an awesome and enjoyable TV show.
I'm with you, but I had no idea Game of Thrones was based on real events. This is now officially my favorite nonfiction story.

Lol. Whoops.