The Official 2017 Pittsburgh Pirates Baseball Season Thread

[Troy Loney]

Well, if we want to be optimistic, we can assume that Rodriguez will be occupying the role that Jaso was intended to play (OF/INF), but actually be able to do that defensively. They love defensive versatility, so hopefully Rodriguez will backup 3B and SS, but also play some OF so they can keep Osuna as the backup 1B.

But honestly, if Nutting and NH's response to seeing this cores' descent to mediocrity, to just add SeanRod...then it would be time to replace the mlb app with the milb app.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

Can't wait for josh bell to sit the bench in lieu of ShtRod after the 6th inning for defensive purposes.

[Freddy Rumsen]

https://twitter.com/TribSports/status/8 ... 6625571840

[willeyeam]

So Freese/Rodriguez occupy 3b and one bench spot. Backup catcher, Frazier, Osuna and ? Looks like another year without a real SS backup.

They'll really need to beef up the back end of the rotation and bullpen to compete.

I think that's a good enough bench to give a spot to Gift

[Troy Loney]

Can't wait for josh bell to sit the bench in lieu of ShtRod after the 6th inning for defensive purposes.

I know I've seen this revisionist history from at least one additional place, but people are looking at Bell's triple slash and saying he's Pedro 2.0.

One, Bell is showing the propensity to play 1B, Alvarez was actually pretty awesome before his defense made him unplayable, and Bell doesn't strike out as much.

[beerman]

Well, if we want to be optimistic, we can assume that Rodriguez will be occupying the role that Jaso was intended to play (OF/INF), but actually be able to do that defensively. They love defensive versatility, so hopefully Rodriguez will backup 3B and SS, but also play some OF so they can keep Osuna as the backup 1B.

But honestly, if Nutting and NH's response to seeing this cores' descent to mediocrity, to just add SeanRod...then it would be time to replace the mlb app with the milb app.

I want to be optimistic, I just don't trust Hurdle to only use him off the bench with the occasional start. Also, if the rumors were true and the Pirates wanted to trade JHay prior to the season and sign SeanRod to start at 2B, I'd bet they still feel he can start somewhere for this team.

If I had to bet on A) the Pirates bring in a legit option at 3b or B) all 162 starts in 2018 are consumed by some grouping of SeanRod/Freese/Jhay and maybe Frazier. I'd take the second option.

It doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to envision a scenario where they talk themselves into some combo of Freese/SeanRod/JHay at 3b and JHay/SeanRod/Frazier at 2b.

[Troy Loney]

I want to be optimistic, I just don't trust Hurdle to only use him off the bench with the occasional start. Also, if the rumors were true and the Pirates wanted to trade JHay prior to the season and sign SeanRod to start at 2B, I'd bet they still feel he can start somewhere for this team.

If I had to bet on A) the Pirates bring in a legit option at 3b or B) all 162 starts in 2018 are consumed by some grouping of SeanRod/Freese/Jhay and maybe Frazier. I'd take the second option.

It doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to envision a scenario where they talk themselves into some combo of Freese/SeanRod/JHay at 3b and JHay/SeanRod/Frazier at 2b.

They would be much better off moving one of Harrison/Freese/Frazier/SeanRod and getting an actual SS to backup Mercer.

[beerman]

So Freese/Rodriguez occupy 3b and one bench spot. Backup catcher, Frazier, Osuna and ? Looks like another year without a real SS backup.

They'll really need to beef up the back end of the rotation and bullpen to compete.

I think that's a good enough bench to give a spot to Gift

I'm fine if he gets a bench spot, I like his defense and speed, no issues giving a spot to a guy with those skill sets.

Overall that is a fine bench but I'm concerned with running basically the same position player group, plus Rodriguez, as 2017 and assuming the results will be much different. Without significant improvement to the 2018 pitching staff you can't expect much better W/L results.

[beerman]

I want to be optimistic, I just don't trust Hurdle to only use him off the bench with the occasional start. Also, if the rumors were true and the Pirates wanted to trade JHay prior to the season and sign SeanRod to start at 2B, I'd bet they still feel he can start somewhere for this team.

If I had to bet on A) the Pirates bring in a legit option at 3b or B) all 162 starts in 2018 are consumed by some grouping of SeanRod/Freese/Jhay and maybe Frazier. I'd take the second option.

It doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to envision a scenario where they talk themselves into some combo of Freese/SeanRod/JHay at 3b and JHay/SeanRod/Frazier at 2b.

They would be much better off moving one of Harrison/Freese/Frazier/SeanRod and getting an actual SS to backup Mercer.

Freese would be the best of the group to move in terms of value to the team in my opinion. Both positions he covers already have a number of people who can handle them so swapping his spot for someone who can legitimately handle SS would be an upgrade. Doing so probably gives Rodriguez even more playing time though.

Best case would be Freese out, starting 3b in. Then bench of SeanRod, Frazier, Osuna, backup SS and C.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

Can't wait for josh bell to sit the bench in lieu of ShtRod after the 6th inning for defensive purposes.

I know I've seen this revisionist history from at least one additional place, but people are looking at Bell's triple slash and saying he's Pedro 2.0.

One, Bell is showing the propensity to play 1B, Alvarez was actually pretty awesome before his defense made him unplayable, and Bell doesn't strike out as much.

Only a lazy clownboat would say that bell is pedro 2.0.

Bell does not have Pedro's prodigious power. Bell has good power, but not pedro type power.
Bell does not strike out as much. Bell can actually have a puncher's chance against lefties. Bell appears to have a clue at the plate and doesn't chase every piece of trash breaking ball. Bell can hit to all fields. Pedro had none of these.

Bell fights pitches off and hits ground balls up the middle and can hit the ball the opposite way for a base hit. He has quick hands.

Most importantly, bell, who is just about to turn 25, is hitting in the middle of the lineup during his rookie season and holding his own. Bell already has as many at bats in the four spot than pedro does....in Pedro's entire career. Pedro's career ops int he four spot is 636. Bell is 842.

tl;dr The thought of Pedro's ability to hit those opposite field laser beams to the notch still gets Kenny the kangaroo's loins enflamed. But that being said, josh bell is a bajillion times the hitter.

[willeyeam]

So Freese/Rodriguez occupy 3b and one bench spot. Backup catcher, Frazier, Osuna and ? Looks like another year without a real SS backup.

They'll really need to beef up the back end of the rotation and bullpen to compete.

I think that's a good enough bench to give a spot to Gift

I'm fine if he gets a bench spot, I like his defense and speed, no issues giving a spot to a guy with those skill sets.

Overall that is a fine bench but I'm concerned with running basically the same position player group, plus Rodriguez, as 2017 and assuming the results will be much different. Without significant improvement to the 2018 pitching staff you can't expect much better W/L results.

Yeah I thought pitching was the problem so I had no real problem with the lineup basically staying the same and then needing to make moves with pitching to contend.. But after further research the Buccos are 12th in the NL in runs scored, so there needs to be something done in the lineup as well. Marte not being suspended 80 games will help, but another move needs made imo. 3B would be a good spot to sign someone.

[Troy Loney]

I heard an interview with Hurdle where he was complaining about Polanco's injury issues. I think they're going to be more hands on with his off-season training program. It seems like him and Marte train together back in the DR, and I assume that Marte will also have to be watched closely as well because of his steroid suspension. So maybe playing crossfit and fitness posing for IG will be out, and they'll both be at Pirate City under professional guidance. Considering what Bell, Mercer, Harrison and McCutchen are doing offensively this year, there's still a chance that they have a potent lineup for 2018 as is.

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

Rhetorical question: How idiotic does it seem that the pirates weren't paying attention to polanco's offseason program?

[Dickie Dunn]

Rhetorical question: How idiotic does it seem that the pirates weren't paying attention to polanco's offseason program?

Do you know how much money it would cost to keep track of players in the offseason? Literally hundreds.

I hope they still plan on having Osuna learn 3B during Winter Ball.

[DigitalGypsy66]

I've read some speculation that SRod is a Harrison replacement at 2B. The Pirates will need to shed Harrison's contract, being that they are the Pirates.

[DigitalGypsy66]

SRod in at short this evening. He really is the only viable backup for Jordy on the roster, right? Frazier and Harrison could in a pinch, but not optimal.

[Morkle]

Rhetorical question: How idiotic does it seem that the pirates weren't paying attention to polanco's offseason program?

Do you know how much money it would cost to keep track of players in the offseason? Literally hundreds.

I hope they still plan on having Osuna learn 3B during Winter Ball.

All they had to do was watch his Instagram account. Too many tire flips, not enough fundamentals.

[willeyeam]

Man Trevor Williams has been awesome lately. 7 shutout, 1 hit tonight. Probably done with 105 pitches

[willeyeam]

I don't always get hits, but when I do they win ballgames - John Jason probably

I think all of his say, 17 hits are in the 7th inning or later

[MrKennethTKangaroo]

This pirate fan can't handle jaso and sht rod being on the same team let alone both of them winning ball games for the team. UGH

[willeyeam]

This pirate fan can't handle jaso and sht rod being on the same team let alone both of them winning ball games for the team. UGH

There's a term I've heard called a 4 loss win. Locke was the king of it. ie, you're on the verge of losing your spot and pitch a gem and earn yourself another 4 losses. Well Jaso is the king of the 5 start pinch hit

[columbia]

I'm a masochist, because I actually miss Locke.

[Dickie Dunn]

Great start by Williams. Shame he wasn't given the rotation spot he so clearly earned out of Spring Training. If you take out his bullpen work and disastrous first start he's sporting a 3.56 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 3.34 FIP, 8.3 H/9, 2.3 BB/9, 0.5 HR/9, and a 241/301/365/666 line against him. Only one of those where he doesn't lead Pirates starting pitchers is BB/9 because Nova never walks anyone. His groundball rate is also the best on the Pirates by anyone not named Felipe Rivero. His velocity isn't overwhelming, but he locates his pitches well, has a decent gap between his fastball and changeup, and gets much better movement from his sinker (and a higher whiff rate) than sinkerball pitcher Kuhl. It's still a small sample size for him, but he definitely looks like a trustworthy and capable backend starter. He also has my most desired trait in a pitcher: he pitches quickly.

John Jaso might be a turd as a starter, but he's batting 308/455/692/1147 with 3 HRs and 9 RBI in 33 PAs as a pinch hitter. He's tied for the league lead in pinch hit homeruns, and has a top 10 slash line compared to players with similar pinch hit PAs. Maybe there's a use for him after all.

[DigitalGypsy66]

Do you think that Williams wasn't given a rotation spot because he wasn't a Pirates draft pick? Or should I take the foil hat off?

[willeyeam]

Or should I take the foil hat off?

Yes. It was pretty much because they wanted to see what Glasnow had.