Official fire johnston thread - join the crew

[Gaucho]

Old school, baby.

[Tico Rick]

I'm glad the players learned to do push-ups in the first practice. God knows where'd they'd be if they didn't get that out of the way right away.

It's a minor thing that's not going to get anyone in any better shape, but psychologically it sends the message of accountability - you don't do a good job, you face consequences.

[Defence21]

I'm all in for this change -- both in terms of relieving Johnston of his duties and in selecting Sullivan as his replacement. Johnston's firing was about more than his unwillingness to play Sprong. It wasn't about someone to fall on the sword. It was about a team with elite offensive talent that couldn't score and about a group of elite players who, as individuals, could not score. It was about trying to fit a square peg (defense-first mentality) into a round hole (offense driven lineup). It was about a general lack of fire, focus, and determination.

This team showed up and "fought" for wins only a few times, several of which came after the players new Johnston's job was ripe for the taking. Another was after Johnston uncharacteristically yelled at the team between the 2nd and 3rd periods of the game against Montreal last month. But in general, they played relatively unmotivated hockey.

Some things I found baffling under Johnston:

- Turnovers - my lord, there were turnovers. So many turnovers. Well, strike that. Maybe the number wasn't huge, but the magnitude was. That's a lack of focus, and it started right at the top with Crosby.

- Control - By all accounts, Johnston came into camp with something to prove, and in the process, he reportedly took over control of the power play from Tocchet. The Tocchet haters will say it's because he sucks. Fine. Explain, then, why the power play failed to improve without Tocchet instructing? DK goes so far as to mention that, as of last week, it was essentially a two-man coaching staff, with Tocchet all but excluded. That might fly if the team actually succeeded following the adjustment, but it didn't. Nothing changed.

- Stubborn tendencies - Johnston didn't want to play Sprong and Clendening for whatever reason. Maybe he just felt more comfortable with his veterans. Fine. But find a way to explain it better. After Sprong played 5 minutes and change Friday night, Johnston said he wasn't comfortable with his defense, especially after being turned around by Kopitar. Cool. Then pretty well everyone in the league should be benched. One's ability to defend Kopitar shouldn't be the determining factor of one's ability to defend all. As for Clendening, Johnston was asked why Warsofsky was in the lineup, and he said the defense needed a puck-moving touch. And, yet, he chose to keep Scuderi in the lineup over Clendening.

- Idiocy - During the preseason, they came into camp with set lines and set defense pairs. Kessel was with Crosby. Period. Why not give him a shot with Malkin, too? Isn't that what camp is for: to experiment and see what works best? Letang and Maatta were a defense pair all camp -- until the first game of the season, when they were inexplicable separated only to elevate career #5/#6 Cole to the top-pairing while Maatta found himself on the third pair. Scuderi, during camp, saw himself skating on the fourth or fifth pairing, easily on the outside looking in to any reasonable observer -- then found his way onto the everyday lineup starting with the first game. None of this. Makes sense. None of it.

Lastly, I want to point out something I have found strange coming from fans/media types. I keep reading and hearing that these Penguins aren't scoring (27th in the league, to be precise), but that's merely a product of a more defense-oriented, lower scoring NHL accross the board. Fine. I get that -- if we're comparing goals-per-game this year to goals-per-game from years past. We're not. We're comparing the Penguins of 2015-16 to the other 29 teams of 2015-16. A team with this amount of offensive talent should not be #27 in scoring. Period. It should be top 10, easily, but more appropriately, top 5.

[meow]

I'm glad the players learned to do push-ups in the first practice. God knows where'd they'd be if they didn't get that out of the way right away.

It's a minor thing that's not going to get anyone in any better shape, but psychologically it sends the message of accountability - you don't do a good job, you face consequences.

For pros? Push-ups aren't consequences for pros. That stuff works with high school kids, not full-grown professional athletes. The only performance drivers are playing time and money. If Sullivan dangles the playing time carrot, I'll be more impressed with him. Push-ups in practice seem like an empty attempt at showing their is a new sheriff in town.

[shmenguin]

Lastly, I want to point out something I have found strange coming from fans/media types. I keep reading and hearing that these Penguins aren't scoring (27th in the league, to be precise), but that's merely a product of a more defense-oriented, lower scoring NHL accross the board. Fine. I get that -- if we're comparing goals-per-game this year to goals-per-game from years past. We're not. We're comparing the Penguins of 2015-16 to the other 29 teams of 2015-16. A team with this amount of offensive talent should not be #27 in scoring. Period. It should be top 10, easily, but more appropriately, top 5.

some have countered this with the notion that if we were connecting on the PP, we'd be around middle of the league in goals scored. so instead of a good defense and a terrible offense, we'd have a good defense and an average offense. effectively elevating us from a 9th place team to a team that loses in the first round.

i'm not exactly comfortable, with the % of the cap committed to offensive talent, to settle for average. but different strokes.

[shmenguin]

If Sullivan dangles the playing time carrot, I'll be more impressed with him.

this may seem like something that only matters on message boards, but going forward, in this vein, i'd like all references to the "first line" include malkin and only malkin as center.

[mikey]

I'm glad the players learned to do push-ups in the first practice. God knows where'd they'd be if they didn't get that out of the way right away.

It's a minor thing that's not going to get anyone in any better shape, but psychologically it sends the message of accountability - you don't do a good job, you face consequences.

For pros? Push-ups aren't consequences for pros. That stuff works with high school kids, not full-grown professional athletes. The only performance drivers are playing time and money. If Sullivan dangles the playing time carrot, I'll be more impressed with him. Push-ups in practice seem like an empty attempt at showing their is a new sheriff in town.

Yeah, I coach college hockey. I don't generally punish them with pushups (never done that) or suicides (sometimes, but it's a waste of practice time, frankly)...if you don't practice right, you don't play...

My goal in practices is not to get players in shape...that's their personal responsibility...if they fail to keep that level, it will be reflected in their play and the consequence that will come with that...

[tfrizz]

We're an average team offensively in terms of ES production, let down by a power play that had a hot start in 2014, but has trailed off so much since...we would obviously be much better off with a power play guru, because the ES production vs. what we give up is there and sustainable for victories...the goal we don't get on the power play is the goal that cost HCMJ his job...

Which may be fair in the eyes of some...I just hope we continue down this road and Sullivan snaps his power play funk with this team...I just hope he wasn't involved in the Rangers power plays over the years he was there...they dumped it in way too much, they were out of ideas before they even started...

Just to break your heart, mikey, I have got confirmation that Sullivan was, in fact, responsible for the PP when he was with the Rangers.

[Gaucho]

What are suicides and do they involve buckets?

[mikey]

What are suicides and do they involve buckets?

Suicides are skating from end line to blue line and back. End line to center line and back. End line to far blue and back. End line to end line and back.

Except, I alter mine - in the rare event that I do them any more - to stop and pivot on my whistle...so you can't anticipate when to slow down because you're approaching a line...

[mikey]

We're an average team offensively in terms of ES production, let down by a power play that had a hot start in 2014, but has trailed off so much since...we would obviously be much better off with a power play guru, because the ES production vs. what we give up is there and sustainable for victories...the goal we don't get on the power play is the goal that cost HCMJ his job...

Which may be fair in the eyes of some...I just hope we continue down this road and Sullivan snaps his power play funk with this team...I just hope he wasn't involved in the Rangers power plays over the years he was there...they dumped it in way too much, they were out of ideas before they even started...

Just to break your heart, mikey, I have got confirmation that Sullivan was, in fact, responsible for the PP when he was with the Rangers.

That was my recollection of it as well...it was awful...that said, he didn't have as much talent as we have...so hopefully he's learned something, or Rick Tocchet has some ideas that were unheard previously...

[columbia]

Can we wait to he coaches one game, before complaining about HCMS?

[tfrizz]

Referring to Sprong as junior player indicated MJ's thoughts on the matter.

Yeah. I'm pretty confident that MJ never thought Sprong was ready for the NHL, and treated him as such. Rutherford had other ideas...

[dodint]

Source of the post Can we wait to he coaches one game, before complaining about HCMS?

No.

[Gaucho]

Can we wait to he coaches one game, before complaining about HCMS?

No.

[columbia]

Source of the post Can we wait to he coaches one game, before complaining about HCMS?

No.

I just want another C&G situation.

[tfrizz]

I guess my contention would be...you brought in Perron and Hornqvist, and that's great...I like those players very much...Hornqvist is just awesome to watch, the last few years, I've based my game on him when I play in fact (I'm smaller and less Swedish..)...did you need to move Harrington, Kapanen and a 1st (C+/B- prospect, B prospect, 1st) to get yet another winger...?

You poured all the assets into wingers...all of them. Two first round picks, a third if you count Kapanen, Harrington, James Neal, I think we gave up a 3rd in the Kessel deal too...

What assets did we give to improve the defense...? Simon Despres for Ben Lovejoy, lateral at best probably...Bortuzzo for Cole, moderate upgrade...Dumo we got from him for practically free in the first place, Letang existed, Scuderi existed, Pouliot existed...Clendening, Warsofsky, the other fringe NHLers, they just come and go as they do, like Chorney last year...those aren't impact pieces...

So we gave up, in liquidated terms, three 1st round picks, a third, and a B/C prospect to get wingers...fine.
We gave up other defensemen to get other defensemen to come out just about even...

To make matters worse, winger is the least important skater position, defenseman is the most important...it's just not judicious utilization of assets...I would have been fine with Perron, Hornqvist, Kunitz/Dupuis, Fehr, we ended up with bonus bucks with Sprong making the club which probably could not have been foreseen...and instead of Kessel we had [impact d-man here]...

The most favourable trade Rutherford has made for the Pens was giving up Sutter, Dumoulin, and the 8th overall pick (Pouliot) for Jordan Staal. Especially after flipping Sutter for Bonino and Clendening.

[meow]

What are suicides and do they involve buckets?

I had a coach that his suicides did involve a bucket - for players to puke in. Somehow that d-bag is coaching in the NHL now. How, I'll never know.

[tfrizz]

I'm not. I'm expecting to see a coach who can actually motivate his players.

Making the list of the great moves Rutherford made over the summer, we need to put the hiring of Sullivan on that list. In fact, I remember thinking at the time that JR was taking out some coach insurance (and also putting some heat on Johnston) with that hire. Maybe with a year of Johnston under his belt, JR was already thinking that things could go south in a hurry.

Everyone commented in training camp what a commanding, NHL-caliber coach Sullivan seemed to be. Torts called him the complete package last month. DK suggested last week that it might be a good idea to give him the HC job in Pittsburgh before some other team steals him from us. Personally, I am stoked by this move.

To expand on this - Sullivan's first practice was hard skating, compete, work. By comparison it was said that Johnston's practices were not quite that, (described as lackadaisical - but I doubt that is the word to use). Perhaps the front office felt that the sloppiness on the ice in regards to those important passes in the backend and neutral zone was due to the fact that the team wasn't focused during practices on game like speed and situations. I don't know, I'm spitballing here. Warsofsky said of the breakout things worked during the first practice and in Wilkes... that not much would change, just some small tweaks.

Johnston made his practices lighter this season because everyone complained about how hard his practices were last season. Bag skating between games and such.

[Defence21]

Lastly, I want to point out something I have found strange coming from fans/media types. I keep reading and hearing that these Penguins aren't scoring (27th in the league, to be precise), but that's merely a product of a more defense-oriented, lower scoring NHL accross the board. Fine. I get that -- if we're comparing goals-per-game this year to goals-per-game from years past. We're not. We're comparing the Penguins of 2015-16 to the other 29 teams of 2015-16. A team with this amount of offensive talent should not be #27 in scoring. Period. It should be top 10, easily, but more appropriately, top 5.

some have countered this with the notion that if we were connecting on the PP, we'd be around middle of the league in goals scored. so instead of a good defense and a terrible offense, we'd have a good defense and an average offense. effectively elevating us from a 9th place team to a team that loses in the first round.

i'm not exactly comfortable, with the % of the cap committed to offensive talent, to settle for average. but different strokes.

And, I would counter that with: if you're the head coach, and you've assumed PP responsibilities from one of the assistants, it better perform considerably better. It hasn't. It's stunk, and it falls on Johnston's shoulders.

Like you, I tend to think that a team with Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang, and a slew of other dynamic forwards (one of whom...Sprong...was completely ignored) should be much better than average. They should be top-notch, top-tier, top-five. I also agree that there's a lot of money committed to this offense and considerably less committed to this defense. Not a good combo from Rutherford. But if you've got this much offensive talent, as a coach, you better do your best to utilize the expensive assets.

If I've got a Corvette and a Cavalier, I'm driving the Corvette, not the Cavalier.

[dodint]

Source of the post If I've got a Corvette and a Cavalier, I'm driving the Corvette, not the Cavalier.

January will be loads of fun for you.

[tfrizz]

Source of the post If I've got a Corvette and a Cavalier, I'm driving the Corvette, not the Cavalier.

January will be loads of fun for you.

[meow]

Does it matter? Neither gets you to your destination. The corvette blows up in a spectacular explosion after only completing 80% of the trip. The Cavalier slowly sputters and stalls around the same spot

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

eh, this is like a corvette vs a 18 wheeler

[Jofa Guy]

I'm glad the players learned to do push-ups in the first practice. God knows where'd they'd be if they didn't get that out of the way right away.

Reminds me of Sam Bennett. Wasn't he the one who didn't even do 1 pull up when he was a rookie?