Official fire johnston thread - join the crew

[Avyran]

A bit of interesting quotes from Yohe tonight. Spoiled because it's a bit long.

I asked Rutherford if he’d like to see Sprong in the lineup on a regular basis.

“Yes,” Rutherford replied. “Yes. I do want to see that. That’s why we kept him, to play him. That’s what we need to see.”

Rutherford long has expressed a belief in letting the coach pick his lineup. Still, he’s been letting Johnston know that he would prefer to see Sprong. And for whatever reason, the coach won’t make the move, despite’s Rutherford’s repeated requests.

“I have been urging the coach to get him in there,” Rutherford said. “We need him in there so we can get a better look at him.”

Why won’t Johnston use the rookie?

“Well, I guess it was between Sprong and (Sergei) Plotnikov for awhile,” Rutherford said. “And now Plotnikov has been coming along, so Mike didn’t want to take him out. And there have been no injuries, so Mike didn’t want to touch the lineup. But I think it’s been time to get him in there. We have a decision to make.”

---

“The 40-game threshold is the big one for us,” Rutherford said. “To me, that’s more important than the entry-level years. We have a real decision to make with him.”

---

“Well,” Rutherford said, “I mean, if he’s not playing by the 40th game … well, this is why I want to see what he can do.”

I asked Rutherford if the issue simply is that Johnston doesn’t trust having an 18-year-old in the lineup. After all, the coach did refer to Sprong as a “junior player” earlier this season and frequently bemoaned his defensive work in the early going. Now, when Johnston is asked about Sprong, he generally changes the subject or offers an unfulfilling answer.

Rutherford said trust isn’t necessarily the issue.

“I don’t think I’d word it like that,” he said. “We’re just still trying to find out what we’ve got. He’s a young guy and we need to see where he’s at. I think he’s good. I think he’s really good. A good young player. I would like to see him in there to see what he can do.”

---

“Well, we’re going to have to do something to change things up,” he said. “We have underachieved. We’ve definitely underachieved. We’re in a position where we shouldn’t be right now, and we know it. I am going to have to take a look at few things. Something needs to change.”

---

Rutherford clearly likes Clendening.

“Yes,” he said. “Yes. Yes. Warsofsky came in and played some good games for us. He skates and moves the puck well. I guess he jumped ahead of Clendening for a few games. But really, I think Clendening has played pretty well. I’d like to see more of him.”

[shmenguin]

I don't think those quotes can be saved by adding context. That's just bad.

[Beveridge]

He traded for Clendenning and kept Sprong and I agree about the 40 games is more important than the nine.

The only unbelievable thing he said was that he said it to be quoted.

[columbia]

“I have been urging the coach to get him in there,” Rutherford said. “We need him in there so we can get a better look at him.”

Why won’t Johnston use the rookie?

“Well, I guess it was between Sprong and (Sergei) Plotnikov for awhile,” Rutherford said. “And now Plotnikov has been coming along, so Mike didn’t want to take him out. And there have been no injuries, so Mike didn’t want to touch the lineup. But I think it’s been time to get him in there. We have a decision to make.”

Cause that lineup is just doing great. A new coach won't fix this team in 15-16, but, Jesus, just fire the dude.

[Jim]

Rutherford was given s handful of bad contracts that he was stuck with. That limited what he was/is able to do roster wise. He has made a number of deals, have they all been super deals, no, but the body of deals is still well in the green. Buying out the contracts that he can't move was not really a viable option either. Had he done that the Pens would be burdened with dead cap space for another 3 or so years, and everyone would be crying about how he wrongly financed the future.

The biggest issue front office type wise is the GM/Coach connection. These two are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Rutherford was hired late, the rest of the GM crew and whatever mess that was at the start added to issue in hiring a coach. They clearly settled on Johnson after going through a laundry list of other people. The mix is NOT working. Could Johnson be a solid coach, sure, with different roster setup. Could the team/roster that Rutherford made, even with the pieces that he is stuck with, be a top notch team, sure, with a different coach.

[count2infinity]

Johnston coached juniors... I'm sure he is aware of the frustrations that Sprong must have over not playing here or in juniors. The kid needs playing time. I don't particularly care where he's playing, just as long as he's playing. If Rutherford wants to see more of him, you play him. Simple as that. I'm starting to lean toward the "just get rid of him..." side.

[Gaucho]

So I guess JR is not looking for a defenseman then.

[llipgh2]

I'm thinking once they return from Colorado, HCMJ is going to be let go. Sullivan will be brought in to finish out the season.

[mikey]

***quickly finds this thread to bump it back to the first page where it belongs***

Sorry, but 25 games into the season and you're still fighting consistency issues, guys who won't commit to your system for a full game, and a coach who wants to play "calming influences" on defense when they don't play defense well and generate no offense.

Fire Johnston. Release Sprong from Purgatory. Call up and play Pouliot. Play Clendening. Lock Scuderi in a closet. Buy Warsofsky a pair of platform shoes and a set of weights as parting gifts back to the AHL.

I just bought a f-ing coal mine. I'll be shoveling coal into the Fire Johnston train the rest of the season at this point.

I guess I'll be the voice that defends HCMJ, as not only do I not want him fired, but I also have a generally favorable opinion of the job he's done.

- Not sure what consistency issues really. Defensively, everyone is participating. Crosby and Malkin are 200-foot players, they go icing line to icing line every game regularly for the first time in any regular season of their respective careers.

- And yes, coaches like "calming" influences. He also has few choices. Play the guy that has played 750 NHL games or roll the dice on the guy who wears his games played experience on his back? I'm not saying Scuderi has been great this year, but he has done a fine job keeping goals out of our net...in fact, goals only go in when Cole-Letang are out there, and this seems true by the raw numbers and my own subjective measures as well...Scuderi is not the problem...it doesn't make him the solution, but I think this is just a convenient drum to beat (not saying this at you specifically, FLPF, because I have a lot of respect for your opinion) because no one is used to not having 7 goals scored per game...

- I agree with getting Sprong in there, he has sat for too long at this point.

- I have seen a bit of Pouliot in the AHL this year, when I see him, I get kind of annoyed. He has been sleepy down there. I'm due to check up on WBS again this week, I'll report back.

- Fine, Clendening should rotate in now and again. He has done little to differentiate from Warsofsky I think, but AC has earned a sweater here and there certainly.

[NTP66]

Is Johnson responsible for Malkin, Perron, and Kessel consistently missing wide open nets? I ask, because if even a small percentage of those chances are cashed in on, the last two games might have gone differently. I, too, have been okay with the coaching so far. Some of the players need to step up their game, because not everything is the coach's fault.

[meecrofilm]

- And yes, coaches like "calming" influences. He also has few choices. Play the guy that has played 750 NHL games or roll the dice on the guy who wears his games played experience on his back? I'm not saying Scuderi has been great this year, but he has done a fine job keeping goals out of our net...in fact, goals only go in when Cole-Letang are out there, and this seems true by the raw numbers and my own subjective measures as well...Scuderi is not the problem...it doesn't make him the solution, but I think this is just a convenient drum to beat (not saying this at you specifically, FLPF, because I have a lot of respect for your opinion) because no one is used to not having 7 goals scored per game...

At the beginning of the season, maybe, but now, more often than not, it seems whenever the puck ends up in the back of the net, #4 is on the ice.

[mikey]

Source of the post I liked the 4 scoring lines proposal.

This was not the proposal. This is just what a deep, balanced group of forwards looks like. They all play a similar style of game - tight checking/gaps, then cycle...Malkin is given the free reign for creativity with Kessel, they get to freelance a bit, and frankly, they're the only ones that seem capable this year...everyone else manufactures offense from below the icing line. Not a lot of room to operate out there in the current conditions of the game, best bet is to work from low instead of trying to needle through the haystacks...

HCMJ understands that this isn't junior hockey, he knows how you have to score in the pro game...there are no "junior goals" here, and he has put a style in place that shows he knows just that...what he's missing are guys that can join the attack AND be productive...he has coaxed all of our d-men into supporting the rush well, none of them have the puck skills to do anything about it besides Letang - who has had a weak season - and Maatta kind of, who has been out of the lineup...

Scuderi knows where to go - has no puck skills. Lovejoy knows where to go - has no puck skills. Dumoulin knows where to go - has no puck skills. Warsofsky knows where to go - gets knocked off the puck too easily and is still adjusting to the timing/speed of the pro game. Clendening generally doesn't know where to go and has moderate puck skills. Cole doesn't know what day it is or what game he is playing...

What's a boy to do...? Get some NHL caliber defensemen, get points. Gotta attack with four in this game, we don't have four that can do it. We have three. We need a four.

Claude Giroux in Philadelphia had 10 points in 16 games this year. Jakub Voracek: 5 points in his first 16 games. 5! No goals on his first 60 shots.

Shayne Gostisbehere, an electric puck mover, skater and carrier, joins the lineup on Nov. 14.

Giroux 12 points in his last 11 games, 10 points in his last 11 games. Gostisbehere 8 points in 11 games as a blueliner paired with fringe NHLer Brandon Manning (he's like a worse version of Brian Dumoulin basically, if Dumo was a guy that couldn't get a sweater every night)...

Ghost is alone in point production there on the blueline...Streit, sure a little bit, but he's old as a goat. Del Zotto produces, but at the cost of defense (he has single digit points and is a double-digit minus at last check)...same with us...Letang gets us points at the same rate of minuses...everyone else has the same amount of points as Scuderi...that's not gonna do it...

[PFiDC]

Some of the players need to step up their game, because not everything is the coach's fault.

Sometimes a player's lack of "step up" is directly correlated to the coach and/or system.

[mikey]

- And yes, coaches like "calming" influences. He also has few choices. Play the guy that has played 750 NHL games or roll the dice on the guy who wears his games played experience on his back? I'm not saying Scuderi has been great this year, but he has done a fine job keeping goals out of our net...in fact, goals only go in when Cole-Letang are out there, and this seems true by the raw numbers and my own subjective measures as well...Scuderi is not the problem...it doesn't make him the solution, but I think this is just a convenient drum to beat (not saying this at you specifically, FLPF, because I have a lot of respect for your opinion) because no one is used to not having 7 goals scored per game...

At the beginning of the season, maybe, but now, more often than not, it seems whenever the puck ends up in the back of the net, #4 is on the ice.

I mean, if we're talking the last two games, sure. But on the season, no, that has not been the case. That doesn't mean he's prim and perfect...but he's not hurting this otherwise horrid defensive group (to a man, not systemically)...

[FLPensFan]

***quickly finds this thread to bump it back to the first page where it belongs***

Sorry, but 25 games into the season and you're still fighting consistency issues, guys who won't commit to your system for a full game, and a coach who wants to play "calming influences" on defense when they don't play defense well and generate no offense.

Fire Johnston. Release Sprong from Purgatory. Call up and play Pouliot. Play Clendening. Lock Scuderi in a closet. Buy Warsofsky a pair of platform shoes and a set of weights as parting gifts back to the AHL.

I just bought a f-ing coal mine. I'll be shoveling coal into the Fire Johnston train the rest of the season at this point.

I guess I'll be the voice that defends HCMJ, as not only do I not want him fired, but I also have a generally favorable opinion of the job he's done.

- Not sure what consistency issues really. Defensively, everyone is participating. Crosby and Malkin are 200-foot players, they go icing line to icing line every game regularly for the first time in any regular season of their respective careers.

- And yes, coaches like "calming" influences. He also has few choices. Play the guy that has played 750 NHL games or roll the dice on the guy who wears his games played experience on his back? I'm not saying Scuderi has been great this year, but he has done a fine job keeping goals out of our net...in fact, goals only go in when Cole-Letang are out there, and this seems true by the raw numbers and my own subjective measures as well...Scuderi is not the problem...it doesn't make him the solution, but I think this is just a convenient drum to beat (not saying this at you specifically, FLPF, because I have a lot of respect for your opinion) because no one is used to not having 7 goals scored per game...

- I agree with getting Sprong in there, he has sat for too long at this point.

- I have seen a bit of Pouliot in the AHL this year, when I see him, I get kind of annoyed. He has been sleepy down there. I'm due to check up on WBS again this week, I'll report back.

- Fine, Clendening should rotate in now and again. He has done little to differentiate from Warsofsky I think, but AC has earned a sweater here and there certainly.

No problem mikey. I like a good discussion. When two people offer different meaningful opinions, someone usually learns a side they haven't seen or thought of.

-In terms of consistency, what I mean is there are rarely full 60 minutes efforts. That's going to happen from time to time, but if I had to put a percentage on it, I'd say this team gives a full 60 minutes about 1 in 5 games. That's way too many games where too many players aren't putting in a full effort, are floating, or aren't playing the system.

-I've been hard on Scuderi the past year or two. But I also defended him earlier in the season when he was playing well. Unfortunately, he's turned the corner and is becoming a liability. His effort against LA on the Ehrhoff goal was very bad. His effort against Anaheim on the overturned goal and the Chris Stewart goal were more of the same. He's just not playing good defense in any of those situations, and it's starting to become more common. Johnston also at least is well aware that Scuderi is an offensive black hole, as he said as much that Scuds got less time against LA because offense generation isn't his game.

-Playing the young guys is huge for me. Everyone talks about the bad contracts of Kunitz and Scuderi, and to some degree Dupuis. They're here, they are going to play. But do you truly see any of those 3 being resigned when their contracts are up? I don't. These guys are all over 35 years old as well. There is no reason to continually play them in back to backs, and every game when you have 3 games in 4 days. Dupuis got benched in the 3rd period against LA. Perfect time to get Sprong into a game if Johnston wasn't happy with Dupuis's play. Sprong and Clendening may have a future here. Could be a long one. Could be that they fall off and aren't much of anything. But without meaningful playing time, you aren't going to know. Sticking Sprong on the 4th line and expecting to see what he can do is akin to giving Craig Adams and Tanner Glass full-time shifts with Crosby, and wondering why his numbers are down. Look at what happened with Dumoulin. The guy got barely any playing time last season, thrust into a playoff role, and shined....and continues to do so. I'd rather give Sprong a few games in the top 6 now just to see how he does, so I have a better idea later in the season what he can and can't do. Stop harping on the defense. He's going to need to learn it....but don't teach him defense by totally stifling the offensive ability he has.

-On Clendening, I know you don't like him. I've noticed one reason he may not get time is penalties. The first game he played he took 2 penalties. His first game back in the lineup, he took another. It's not just the penalties, but what happened on those plays. In all 3 occasions, he appeared as though he was about to be beat to the outside, so he puts his arm out and gets called for a hold, rather than using his skating to try and get back into position. But, he also is better at generating offense than Scuderi. By leaps and bounds. Warsofsky looks good on the offensive side, but the way Kopitar repeatedly bulled him over really made his lack of size stand out for me.

-I haven't seen Pouliot this year, so I can only go by what is written. I'll be interested to see what you report.

Overall, I just expected much more out of this team with the group they assembled. Johnston seems to be too conservative and too safe too often. He seems reluctant to put younger players in positions to fail. He seems reluctant to try and open up the offense at any time. I can't overlook the stat lines of so many players on this team being way off their career paces. Many of them are starting to come around, but this team just looks out of sync to me. And the Yohe piece this morning with Rutherford seems to back up a lot of what the fans see: the team is underachieving and the young guys need to get more playing time.

I think MJ's days are numbered.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

wasn't it GMJR's decision to keep Sprong?


I don't really blame HCMJ for being pissy about the move, but he has to put Sprong in the lineup. He's hurting the future of the franchise by not developing probably our best forward prospect

[Gaucho]

That's not his job. If you want to blame someone, blame JR.

[Morkle]

It doesn't matter. HCMJ has bungled the rest of the situation. He should be fired for keeping Scuds in so frequently allowing him to make numerous mistakes.

Clendening(sp) takes a penalty and he doesn't see the ice for 5+ games. Scuds makes blind passes, shoots it over the glass, gives up easy goals while on the PK - and is seemingly rewarded with more playing time.

[dodint]

Sometimes you have to be patient when developing 36 year old talent.

[Defence21]

Rutherford: “Well, we’re going to have to do something to change things up,” he said. “We have underachieved. We’ve definitely underachieved. We’re in a position where we shouldn’t be right now, and we know it. I am going to have to take a look at few things. Something needs to change.”

Yohe later says as a stand-alone tidbit that Rutherford and Burkle had a long conversation outside the locker room in LA. Of course, Burkle lives nearby, and so he's always around for these California games, but you've got to wonder what kind of conversation they were having. With that loss Saturday followed by yesterday's, Johnston's last game could be against Colorado, and I'm wondering if Burkle just gave the green light to make a coaching move.

The Rutherford quotes, specifically the one above, seem ominous. Rutherford won't force Johnston's lineup or tell him who to play, but he has urged him and pushed him to utilize Sprong and Clendening. Couple that with the lackluster results (26 games into the season and in 9th place in the conference), and you've got to think the end is near for the coach who can't seem to pry offense out of this supremely skilled team.

The question is, will they hire internally, going with Sullivan, who has been unbelievably successful in his short stint in WBS, or do they look externally, and if so, at whom?

[dodint]

MOAR rookie(ish) coaches.

[mikey]

Steelers fans want their hockey team to become the Cleveland Browns...?

[dodint]

You think Manziel can QB the PP?

[The U]

If Johnston is fired on Thursday(for example), how would the team look different on Friday? The new guy isn't going to toss out all structure and free the entire team up to worry about offense only. Jacques Martin or Sullivan come in and how would things be different? More defense, more structure?

The blueline would be the same, maybe Scuderi sits a bit more often? The lines would be very similar....maybe 1 or 2 changes? The PP and PK would be the same, right? The team still wouldn't have any physicality or toughness. The team would still have 2 or 3 "skill" guys not supplying the skill and scoring that was expected of them.

If a new coach can come in here and flip the system on its head and all of a sudden unleash 4 lines of consistent energy and flow and offensive chances, I want to pull the trigger right now. But what are the chances that this happens? Are we simply hoping that an MT-Bylsma transition turns the team around "just because"?

[NAN]

FIRE HIM!!!!!!!!

Last time I said that we went 10-2