Pens D on opening day

Which six defensemen will be in the lineup on opening day?

Niclas Andersen
1
0%
Alan Clendening
3
1%
Ian Cole
31
15%
Brian Dumoulin
13
6%
Tim Erixen
1
0%
Sergei Gonchar
9
4%
Hans Jonsson
1
0%
Kris Letang
32
16%
Ben Lovejoy
30
15%
Olli Maatta
33
16%
Willi O'Neill
0
No votes
Steven Oleksy
0
No votes
Derrick Pouliot
25
12%
Rob Scuderi
25
12%
David Warsofsky
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 204
Avyran
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Pens D on opening day

Postby Avyran » Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:22 pm

Perron's showing his potential too. Don't sell him short. Yohe wrote an article yesterday on how Perron is in MUCH better shape than he was at Edmonton (and how Edmonton's lack of fitness really hurt him as the season wore on).
David Perron had another great day. His physical skill is evident. But you’ll note that Perron is at his best when he’s being chippy. He was really physical in practice, which the Penguins love seeing from him.

Don’t be shocked if he starts the season on the top-six. Really, this seems like the logical decision.
There's been "talk" of Perron fitting that spot with Crosby & Kessel as well, with Bennett/Bonino/Plotnikov being a possible line.
And with the caveat that you can't read too much into early lines, Plotnikov has been skating with Nick Bonino and Beau Bennett. That could pretty easily be the main elements of a 3rd line to start the season.
Gotta wait until the season starts, and see how much Dumoulin, Cole, & Pouliot actually have moved forward. Lovejoy is a good 5/6 (and serviceable 4).

mikey
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Pens D on opening day

Postby mikey » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:20 am

I would not move Perron, regardless of what Plotnikov can or can't do...

cadams
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Pens D on opening day

Postby cadams » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:53 am

Pairs this morning, which obviously are not set in stone but still interesting:

Letang-Maatta
Lovejoy- Pouliot
Dumoulin-Cole
Gonchar-Scuderi

tfrizz
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Pens D on opening day

Postby tfrizz » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:25 am

I guess we'll go after Dan Hamhuis (again) as a rental at the deadline when Vancouver is out of it...but we're disadvantaged as we don't have a 2016 1st...

I know the Avs are short on d-men, but right now I would maybe kick tires on Zach Redmond, as I feel he is an upgrade on the best six we have now...it's kind of a shot in the dark so to speak, but between Cole/Redmond/Pouliot, surely we can pull one second-pairing d-man out of that group this season...right?
Yeah, I don't know either...
I think Cole could be fine as a second pairing defenseman... but he should be the #4 guy not the #3 guy.

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Pens D on opening day

Postby count2infinity » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:28 am

I guess we'll go after Dan Hamhuis (again) as a rental at the deadline when Vancouver is out of it...but we're disadvantaged as we don't have a 2016 1st...

I know the Avs are short on d-men, but right now I would maybe kick tires on Zach Redmond, as I feel he is an upgrade on the best six we have now...it's kind of a shot in the dark so to speak, but between Cole/Redmond/Pouliot, surely we can pull one second-pairing d-man out of that group this season...right?
Yeah, I don't know either...
I think Cole could be fine as a second pairing defenseman... but he should be the #4 guy not the #3 guy.
Is that just a technicality? I mean, it's second pair either way. What the difference between #3 and #4?

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Pens D on opening day

Postby Craig » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:48 am

The number of minutes they get. Id expect the gap between 3 and 4 to be somewhat substantial.

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Pens D on opening day

Postby tfrizz » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:56 am

The number of minutes they get. Id expect the gap between 3 and 4 to be somewhat substantial.
That, and the quality of partner. If he's the #4 guy, then he's playing with a higher quality partner. If he's the #3 guy, he's the go-to guy on the pairing and is playing with lower quality partner.

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Pens D on opening day

Postby count2infinity » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:30 am

https://twitter.com/Mackey_Trib/status/ ... 9823814656

"Green light to read into defense pairs" very interesting...

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Pens D on opening day

Postby Gaucho » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:47 am

I read into it that we're short at least one top 4 dman. Probably two.

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Postby mikey » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:51 am

When you're talking about the difference between 1 and 2 or 3 and 4, for me, beyond anything else, you're talking about the ability to "lead" a pairing...so what does that mean?

Well, so it's more common to witness in forward groupings than with defense because it's more obvious. We have Sidney Crosby, he is a take-charge, #1 elite center ice-man, no question. You look at Chris Kunitz or Pascal Dupuis, his running mates for the better part of the last several years...are those really "traditional" first line wingers...? Dupuis, certainly not. Kunitz you can make an argument for - probably no longer, of course. But is Kunitz, on skillset, more a complementary piece than a true #1 LW? I think there is some grounds for that. Kunitz would probably be labeled better (and is generally labeled over the past 6 or 7 years prior to last) as a "top six forward"...not a first line forward...

From joining the Pens until the end of 2013-14 season, Kunitz is top-25 among NHL LWs in EV ATOI, points (11th), goals (10th), the whole bit...even his under-performing season in 14-15 does little to damage those marks...

But is he really a "drive the bus" top line LWer? Or can he play top line LWer...

A good example on defense is in Boston with the Zdeno Chara and Dennis Seidenberg pairing in the 2011 Stanley Cup Playoffs, they easily could have split a Conn Smythe Trophy and it would have be wholly justified. But Seidenberg as a top pair d-man is not really a natural play. And this would pan out in the seasons to follow when they were split up during the regular season (and often re-joined forces in the playoffs), the guy that played brilliantly as a #2 with Zdeno Chara and had a huge active role in winning that Stanley Cup, was not at all effective as a #3 in following seasons...and he and his partner struggled as a result. Seidenberg is a "top four" d-man, he can be a #2 with a strong partner, he can be a #4...but he is not a #1 or a #3...

He's not really a "direct traffic", "take control" type of player...he's a support player on retrievals, he's not a very strong puck carrier, he's not the strongest outlet passer, but he does a lot of things really well...it's just that he does them so much better in tandem with another smart+better player that it's senseless to have him drag a partner along with him, like say, Adam McQuaid...not a good match.

A lot of this is just kind of feel, the line between complementary/support player on a unit and "leader" can be blurred certainly...but it will make itself apparent in a lot of instances...our defense is ripe for that to expose itself...Olli Maatta, to me, looks like a good example of what a #2 might look like, but not a future #1, for instance...we'll watch that progression over the next few seasons...

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Pens D on opening day

Postby Avyran » Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:48 pm

Couple notes from day 3. First, Twitter notes from the Johnston press conference:
(Molinari) Johnston praises at the off-season conditioning work done by David Perron and Beau Bennett, as well as their early-camp performances.

(Official) Coach on Maatta and Letang as a pair: “They're fast on their retrievals/breakouts… It’s good to get them together."
He also praised Bobby Farnham ("Farnham is the energy, physical guy. We need a guy like that in our lineup… so he was out there [with Group B] today.") & Conor Sheary (""Conor Sheary has had a really good camp. We believe he may surprise a lot of people.").

Second, notes from Yohe:
Lots of power play work just now. Here’s what we’ve got: Evgeni Malkin is on the right wing half wall. (Will wait for your applause.) Kris Letang is the only point man. Kessel is working the left wing half wall. Patric Hornqvist is in front of the net. Crosby, you ask? He’s working all over the place. But he was in the high slot a lot. Jussi Jokinen used to play there quite often. He was terrific in that role. Crosby took some shots form there, and was a distributed the puck as well. Interesting.

...

As for the second power play unit, it looks like it might be Derrick Pouliot with Nick Bonino, David Perron, Beau Bennett and Chris Kunitz in front of the net. Not a bad collection of talent there, either, and I suspect we’ll see Sergei Gonchar getting some looks with both units.

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Pens D on opening day

Postby Hugo Stiglitz » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:08 pm

More Farnham! I think his impact on the team in his little stint last season was quite understated. He seemed to get the whole bench going with his play.

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Pens D on opening day

Postby Hugo Stiglitz » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:03 pm

It sounds like the Pens may be aggressively trying to move Scuderi. I know this rumor comes from TIOPS, but here we go...

The Pens and Devils are trying to move Scuderi and a pick to NJ for Ryan Clowe. Now, Clowe is not expected to play hockey again due to his concussion issues and can be placed on long-term IR. This would basically be like the Nathan Horton trade to TOR. Clowe will still be paid the remainder of his contract which is appx. $14M over the next three season(not against the cap), so the issue here is with the Pens trying to sell the team this could cause issues.

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Pens D on opening day

Postby columbia » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:05 pm

Please

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Pens D on opening day

Postby count2infinity » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:13 pm

14 mil over 3 seasons is a drop in the bucket. The cap is the issue. Free up cap space, get a better team, make a deeper run, you make up that money immediately.

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Pens D on opening day

Postby Gaucho » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:19 pm

Do it, RS!

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Pens D on opening day

Postby Hugo Stiglitz » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:26 pm

14 mil over 3 seasons is a drop in the bucket. The cap is the issue. Free up cap space, get a better team, make a deeper run, you make up that money immediately.
Profit

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Pens D on opening day

Postby Jim » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:32 pm

If you trade someone and retain salary, and they go on LTIR... do you get the cap relief too?

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Pens D on opening day

Postby Dickie Dunn » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:43 pm

I feel like Shero owes it to this franchise to bring Scuderi to the Devil.

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Pens D on opening day

Postby Defence21 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:55 pm

If you trade someone and retain salary, and they go on LTIR... do you get the cap relief too?
Yes, you would get cap relief during the regular season, but my understanding is that the relief does not extend into the offseason and preseason. The problem with this would be that the Penguins would be on the hook for Clowe's $5+ million annually for the next two offseason's, which would limit their ability to sign players, as you are permitted to exceed the cap in the summer by no more than 10% -- although, I suppose 10% of the cap should be enough to cover Clowe's cap hit.

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Pens D on opening day

Postby mikey » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:45 pm

Yes, what D21 said. Ryane Clowe has already retired to the best of my knowledge...doctors orders.

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Pens D on opening day

Postby Avyran » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:54 pm

There's no way Scuderi would accept that... would he?

Though maybe the Devils are such low-pressure that he wouldn't mind.

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Pens D on opening day

Postby large garlic » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:47 pm

For what it's worth, Madden was really talking up Dumoulin as a 2nd-pairing guy yesterday before the game. He said he's looked like the 2nd-best skater on d after Letang, which is impressive for a guy his size.

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Postby mikey » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:53 pm

DP is a far better skater than Dumo and it's not remotely close...though much of the rest of our blueline is only average in terms of skating - at best...

EDIT: Oh yeah, Lovejoy...he's way better than Dumo too, easily...

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Pens D on opening day

Postby MR25 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:57 pm

Dumoulin looked very meh. Not a 2nd pairing showing.

He did a perfect job of screening Fleury on Faulk's goal from the point.

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