Penguins Prospects Thread

[mikey]

Starting with the 2020 class, just briefly...

Chase Yoder - Average skater, maybe a little above. Projectable stride. Doesn't appear to have progressed meaningfully this year. 3+3=6 in 25 GP. Only playing fourth line center minutes (10, 11 minutes). Works. Throws some hits. Smart. Not much skill or a shot. Not an accurate passer. His ability to carry the puck is always outside, and then he has one move where he takes it on his backhand to the net. But he doesn't have the skill to finish it off, or the speed to beat most players. If he was 18 year old this year, I'd still consider him an easy no draft.

Projection is unchanged: very little chance of being an NHLer because there's no where for him to fall to. He was a third line player in junior, now he's a fourth line player in college.

Raivis Ansons - Looks a little bit improved from a skating/athleticism/coordination standpoint. He can absolutely bury some kids, but he doesn't hit a lot by trade. He's just kind of a barrel down the wing and see what happens guy. There isn't much imagination to his game and he's a poor passer. His 9 points in 10 games in the top Latvian league is nice (third best points per game in the league for 20U players). But once again, he was just a half point per game player in the Q. There's just not a lot of structure to his game and his move or move and a half that he does have is used to death. He's going to need some more dynamic skill in space to be a legit NHL threat. Make a flat pass, bud, come on...don't make everything someone's else problem.

Projection is slightly improved. But this still doesn't give me any better feeling than Sergei Plotnikov.

Lukas Svejkovsky - He's still listed at 5'9", but he looks like he's 5'11". He's not any tougher or a start and stop player or anything, but his offensive tools have improved. His shot is better, real quick release. He's learned to change the angle more often. Then I like some of the deception in his game, there's a little more shoulder fakes in there. His hands are really fast and useful in traffic. He can beat guys cleanly with some regularity. I'd like better first-step quickness and edge work, it will help him create more ostensible contact points. That is, if he's willing...he's willing to back down from virtually any challenge. He's going to be a smaller, one-way offensive player, so he's gotta be real good. He's on his way. Played RW this year instead of center, that's right, as he's not going to be an NHL center. 12+10=22 in 20 GP after 38 points in 52 last year is marked improvement statistically on a team that got worse. Willie Desjardins has been his coach the last couple of years, he had a hand in Reilly Smith being a player. I wonder if he can't use him as a guide for dealing with and developing Svejkovsky.

It's to justify wasting a lot of time on goalies right now...Calle Clang played his first year pro in Sweden in their second-tier Allsvenskan league. He played on a horrific team, but saved them from relegation and won the best junior player award in the league. Not to put too much on it, but William Karlsson and Filip Forsberg also won this award. Clang was also named to the Swedish WJC team, but didn't play over two highly superior goalies...one of which may go top 10 in this draft.

Joel Blomqvist also was named to his WJC team (Finland), but didn't play behind two very meh goalies...Blomqvist also played in his second-tier pro league this year as a rookie. He took his team to a 2nd place finish (Mestis is now a closed league, they don't promote/relegate anymore I don't believe). He played a couple of meh teams in Liiga (top league) and beat them both.

I have an even lower chance of calling the goalies right...so I'll leave it at that.

I'll come back for the 2019 class soon...

[Dickie Dunn]

That’s a lot of words to say everyone sucks. Penguins had some weird and bad drafting tendencies during the FGMJR era. I’m interested to see what GMRH and PoHOBB do to shake things up with the scouting personnel and strategy.

[meow]

Yikes

I guess the good news is that this isn’t the 1990s where it takes a player until he is 25 to make the national. You can get impact players into your big league roster quicker than ever.

[mikey]

In my world, the review of Svejkovsky was pretty positive. He at least has puck skills.

[willeyeam]

Thank you mikey, appreciate the insight

[LeopardLetang]

Very appreciated content.

[shafnutz05]

[meecrofilm]

In my world, the review of Svejkovsky was pretty positive. He at least has puck skills.

Thought the same as well. Also appears both goalies are tracking well enough that hopefully one ends up panning out.

Thanks for the thoughts. Looking forward to 2019.

[mikey]

2019 class...

Santeri Airola -

What a weird little busybody this guy is. Played Liiga (top league) this year as a regular playing 3rd or 4th pairing. But he's a '00 birthday. I watched a Liiga game and was like, "what...what are you doing?" I'm not convinced he belongs at that level. So to try to be fair, I went down and watched his Mestis (second-tier pro) league games to see what happens at a smaller stage for him...

He definitely looked more comfortable, more aggressive. But we're talking about a noticeably slender 21 year old. He's 5'11", he looks about 160. And he's not that dynamic of a skater. So he's dead in the water for me right there. I'm notorious among scouts that I chat with in backing smaller defenders because I think that's where third pairings are going. I think guys like Victor Mete and the kid in Buffalo that came up late in the year who is kind of like Grzelcyk in Boston, I think those are the guys that are going to start being there and not the big dumb guys. So I backed Domenick Fensore in his draft year, I'm backing Jimi Suomi this year, etc.

This is not the guy for me. His puck skills are only flashes here and there. He kind of plays the game like he's better than he is. It's like he's mimicking really good players. He doesn't do...anything. He just exists.

Projection: I didn't know this player when I wrote about him in 2019. I still don't know now. But I don't see the path to get him into the NHL.

Valtteri Puustinen -

Sort of sits in the weeds a little bit. He waits for opportunities. His numbers are pretty gawdy for this league, two years in a row. 15th in points this year, 8th in goals in the league. But to be fair, a lot of that is Petri Kontiola - he's the best passer in the league, by a lot in my opinion. So, there's a chemistry there that's going to be tough to duplicate.

Skating is just average, maybe a touch above. The thing for me isn't really about the pure speed (which is slightly above average), it's about the details of it. It's just a little stiff. He can't separate his top half from his bottom half very well, he doesn't roll his shoulders through turns, he doesn't really burst out of start and stop situations, the turning radius is wider than I'd expect for a 5'9" player. The dominant foot of his stops just gets too far from the non-dominant foot, it's tough for a player who lacks core strength to get out of it. I think it negatively affects his skill chaining.

Skill chaining is a term I use for stringing positive plays together. Sure, you can beat one guy in open space at top speed, but what happened next? What's the next move? Did you get your shot away? Did you beat the next guy? Or did you fall? Did you get knocked out by the next guy? Did you lose control of the puck? I don't think his skill chaining is very good. I think he's a one and done skill guy. That one skill is his shot.

I watched him against Norway (his other opponent was Italy) and I actually liked his work ethic there, he simplified his game a little, he looked a little quicker, more active. So I wonder if his second fiddle playing to Kontiola is just an act and that he actually has more sides to his game.

It's weird, he's just not that impactful compared to his numbers. I like that he doesn't score a lot of "junior" goals. The goals that he scores have some pop to them, he scores from in-close or he scores PP one-timers or catch and release goals. But none of this really looks NHL quality. It's good, but it's not quite good enough for me.

We signed him, which you'd expect when you draft a 20 year old. You usually have a sense that you're gonna be able to bring him over. I think he'll do well in the AHL, but I have doubts about his NHL ability right now.

Judd Caulfield -

Clunky skater, but really good balance and strength. His upper body is just kind of along for the ride, if anything it works against him a little. He has some slow hands. He's experimenting with skill moves though which is nice. But the dynamic element isn't there. The shouldering speed isn't there - shouldering speed is the time it takes between skills that you're stacking. Like Malkin can catch a pass on his backhand, keep his feet moving, deke a defenseman, throw the puck to the forehand and protect it and take it to the net. It feels like it's all in one motion, it happens so fast. Caulfield doesn't have that. When he goes to make a move, generally he throws his weight on to his back foot and gets stuck on it. So, even if the move is successful, he doesn't have the glide speed to really get anywhere with it. We'll see where it goes, he's definitely better than he was in his draft year.

At some point or another you have to produce though. His scoring was static from freshman year to sophomore year. He started this season with one point in his first 13 games. A couple of the games in there, he was playing single digit shifts. It looks like he got bumped up to a line with Shane Pinto (Ottawa 32nd (?) overall pick, who I had as a top 15 player in his class) late in the year and started to produce more. Pinto is gone now, off to the show. So we'll see what happens with Judd in that regard.

Plays physical. Works pretty hard. Hockey sense is only average. Wins a fair amount of puck battles. Can withstand contact. He can shoot.

Projection: Improving player, but at some point you have to score. Hell, at some point, you have to play. He wasn't playing as a sophomore early on. Like I said when we took him, I'm hoping for ZAR out of this. That's still my hope, he's a little closer now. But I'm always a frowny face at unimaginative picks.

Mikey's tip of the day: Don't draft players who are playing in the bottom six in juniors. Because six other forwards from that junior team are not playing in the NHL one day. You don't even need to be a scout for that, it's just sensible.

Nathan Legare -

Goofy skater. Kind of splayed leg. His turning radius is really poor, he's poor coming out of turns. There's just so much weight on the inside edge of his outside foot, he doesn't roll his shoulders through turns, it's tough. But he gets around the ice well enough for what he does. But he's not fast certainly, barely average speed at best for me. He's kind of a prick to play against, he makes some hits, he stands up for himself near the net, he ***** with goalies.

He's got some real skill though. He has hands, he can beat guys, even at his speed. Bomb shot. But is willing to go to the net for tips too. Val d'Or uses the high tip a lot, and Legare is their guy for that. But he goes to the net, but can also beat goalies from mid-range regularly. I don't think he's that savvy of a playmaker, but I think he's a pretty smart player. He doesn't backcheck, but his forecheck game is fine. He has a good stick, hand-eye coordination is there. What's a little weird for me is his lack of finishing moves in close, he just shoots. And he scores.

Led the entire QMJHL in goals this playoff (14 in 15 games)*, no one had more than 11. Third in plus/minus at plus-15. I like his work ethic. Captain of Drakkar for two years. PIMs were down this year, but I think he's a pretty ornery guy out there. I know it's the Q, but these are legit goal scoring numbers:
2019: 48 goals in 75 GP
2020: 35 goals in 61 GP
2021: 30 goals in 48 GP

That's a lotta dimp.

* - It's just anecodtal, but there's a lot of NHLers on the "most QMJHL playoff goals" list year by year.
In order: Lavoie, Alain, Barre-Boulet, Beauvillier, Erne, Mantha, Fournier, Galiyev, Huberdeau, G.Bourque, Riendeau, Byron, Marchand, Melanson, Crosby, Talbot.

Projection: Improved significantly for me. I think he has a skill level to make space for himself. I think he has angle change shooting. I wasn't so sure about this pick at the time, but I think this is an improved player and I think he's a legit NHL prospect. I actually think he'll lead the WBS Pens in goals next year if he's given any sort of legitimate role...and Christ, he better have a role...no one is there to block him.

Samuel Poulin -

Playing center. Boy did his passing/playmaking get really good. So did his ability to handle the puck outside of the plane of his shoulders. He can handle it out in front of him too. I'm not sure I really like how he carries the puck all the time, he pushes the puck a lot, I don't think there's a lot of deception to him in space - from a head and shoulder fakes perspective, and from a bait and switch perspective. The stick skills are there, but then there's also some weird bobbles and mishandles. It's hard to diagnose and predict how this is gonna shake out. Is he really that dynamic? I want to see him catch more passes and chain together some skills before I can get a real feel. I'm not sure he's really using his body to his advantage in puck protection situations. Played really well both ways in the playoffs.

Meaty lad, good strength, looks big on the rink. I have skating questions. First step, turns, lateral skating, foot churn, are not great for me...I'm not sure how good of an athlete he really is. There's something a little off about how he carries himself for me. He gets hit a lot. Really good players don't get hit a lot usually.

I think I misjudged what this was gonna be when we first drafted him. I think this is a playmaking winger, I don't think he's a finisher. I went back and watched all (?) of his goals this year and I don't think he's a finisher. His shot is good, but he scores junior goals. I don't suspect he's going to put them away as a pro, but he can dish. If the moneyline on him making or not making doesn't go outside of +/-200, I'd have no idea where to put my money...

He did have a real nice playoff, 11 goals, 19 points in 15 games. 31 pts in 24 GP in the regular season. Two year captain of Sherbrooke.

Projection: Like I said, I don't know. In some ways he's better, in some ways he's not. He's got everything you want, in a way, but something about it just isn't quite right for me...I'd like to see him in the AHL and not in the bottom six up here next year...

[mikey]

2018...

Calen Addison - gone to Minnesota for Zucker (played in the NHL this year)
Filip Halander - gone to Toronto for Kapanen

Justin Almeida - lol no. I mean, he has a shot. Everything else stinks. Wasn't even a half point per game player in the Cheese in 2020. 4 points and a dash 5 in 11 games in the AHL in his second year pro.

Liam Gorman - Man, what a bad pick. He didn't play this year. 1+5=6 and a -14 in 31 GP at Princeton as a freshman. He just loves exposing the puck and having no real plan for it. The game plays him.

[Dickie Dunn]

Again, our drafting strategy under GMJR was very weird and very bad. So many weird US Junior/college and euro picks that just seem indefensible.

[Gaucho]

I don't think drafting players with glaring weaknesses and/or niche abilities is a sound strategy.

[mikey]

2017

Will Reilly -

This is actually an interesting player. Mr. Aggressive Gap. He plays aggressively without the physicality. He pinches hard, he really tracks hard in the NZ, he'll cross lanes to try to squash attacks before they start. Sometimes he blows it, but I actually really get the logic behind it most of the time. He plays the game on his toes. We took him as a 20 year old freshman at RPI. He was the captain there his last year.

Plus skater on a 6'2" frame, rangy. Definitely not a gamebreaker, but he has capable puck moving skills. He can freeze a forechecker with his skating and skill combination. I don't think he's a multi-line carrier by any stretch, but he doesn't chop the puck in half...his shot isn't bad either actually. He's 24, so time is not on his side. Just six points in 26 GP as a rookie in WBS. Played about 16, 17, 18 minutes in the A this year. I don't want to oversell this - which I don't think I did - but this is a very pro style player. He's a RHS, I wouldn't be surprised if he got a cup of coffee up in Pittsburgh this year...

The rest of the 2017 class for the lolz...
Zachary Lauzon retired after the 2018 season...

Clayton Phillips is going to play a fifth year of NCAA hockey, now at Penn State. 26 pts and -24 rating in 92 games. I'd be curious to know if any five-year junior or college players ever made the show...I took a glance at him this year against like Wisconsin or Michigan or one of the big schools, this is a completely nothing prospect...

Jan Drozg 10 goals and 15 points in 62 career AHL games. Point per game player in the Cheese in 2020, Played most of the year over Slovenia, won the Alps League championship. This development route: Slovenia U18, Slovenia top league, Swedish J18, Swedish J20SuperElit, QMJHL, ECHL, AHL, Alps League. Top 10 in points per game in the Alps League. I don't feel like watching him though...

Linus Olund - ya know, when you draft a 20 year old (who was still playing some junior hockey), normally you have a plan. He's a 15 to 25 point player in the SHL.

Antti Palojarvi - In 2020, he played in Finland's second-tier league (which is much worse than Sweden's), he played 24 games, scored zero points and was a -22. He's 22 years old and somehow played in Finland's U20 league this year...where he went 1+4=5 and a -5 in 11 games. Jesus...

##

Ok, that's the last four classes, quickly...I'll take requests if you want quick thoughts on someone else...

[meow]

Quick. Do Angelo Esposito

[skullman80]

So basically a pile of nothing in the system.

[mikey]

Quick. Do Angelo Esposito

Man, this is tough to look at... https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/1 ... o-esposito

[mikey]

So basically a pile of nothing in the system.

Yeah, basically...

Of the skaters that I just did, I'd say we have a "B" prospect in Legare, a B-/C+ prospect in Poulin, C prospects in Svejovsky and Reilly...everything else looks like the sparest of parts...

[Jim]

What has the Penguins amateur scout department looked like over the last 10 years or so? Both NA and Euro? Has there been turnover, or has it been the same group of "not good at judging talent" guys most of the time? I know that Allvin has been promoted, somehow failing upward, but has management done anything to try to improve the guys that actually watch these kids everyday?

[Lelldorin]

So basically a pile of nothing in the system.

Yeah, basically...

Of the skaters that I just did, I'd say we have a "B" prospect in Legare, a B-/C+ prospect in Poulin, C prospects in Svejovsky and Reilly...everything else looks like the sparest of parts...

Thank you for your service =)
It does not look good but to be fair we have had very few high draft picks during the latest years...

[mikey]

What has the Penguins amateur scout department looked like over the last 10 years or so? Both NA and Euro? Has there been turnover, or has it been the same group of "not good at judging talent" guys most of the time? I know that Allvin has been promoted, somehow failing upward, but has management done anything to try to improve the guys that actually watch these kids everyday?

Colin Alexander is a crossover guy (important) - hired in 2016 from Seattle (WHL), promoted to crossover scout in 2020. He brought Dan McLean with him as well around the same time as an amateur scout, likely our WHL guy.
Al Santilli has been here since 2011, promoted to crosssover guy recently.

Jamie Huffman hired in 2017 from Sioux City (USHL)
Petri Pakaslahti hired in 2016

Brian Fitzgerald has been here forever (since the lockout at least).
Jay Heinbuck has been here forever, demoted in 2016.
Tommy Westlund since 2012 at least...
Luc Gauthier since 2008.
Frank Golden since 2014.
Warren Young has been on since 2013, likely focuses on goalies in place of Meloche. Our goalie drafting has been really good since then, I'd say...

Meloche is actually still on the books, so is Kevin Stevens...I imagine they're just part time guys at best...

So, just based on what's on the card, we have had no so much turnover...but I'm also not including the guys we have let go/lost in this time either...Wayne Meier retired a few years ago, Ron Pyette was here for a while and went to Buffalo, etc.

[Jim]

What has the Penguins amateur scout department looked like over the last 10 years or so? Both NA and Euro? Has there been turnover, or has it been the same group of "not good at judging talent" guys most of the time? I know that Allvin has been promoted, somehow failing upward, but has management done anything to try to improve the guys that actually watch these kids everyday?

Colin Alexander is a crossover guy (important) - hired in 2016 from Seattle (WHL), promoted to crossover scout in 2020. He brought Dan McLean with him as well around the same time as an amateur scout, likely our WHL guy.
Al Santilli has been here since 2011, promoted to crosssover guy recently.

Jamie Huffman hired in 2017 from Sioux City (USHL)
Petri Pakaslahti hired in 2016

Brian Fitzgerald has been here forever (since the lockout at least).
Jay Heinbuck has been here forever, demoted in 2016.
Tommy Westlund since 2012 at least...
Luc Gauthier since 2008.
Frank Golden since 2014.
Warren Young has been on since 2013, likely focuses on goalies in place of Meloche. Our goalie drafting has been really good since then, I'd say...

Meloche is actually still on the books, so is Kevin Stevens...I imagine they're just part time guys at best...

So, just based on what's on the card, we have had no so much turnover...but I'm also not including the guys we have let go/lost in this time either...Wayne Meier retired a few years ago, Ron Pyette was here for a while and went to Buffalo, etc.

Maybe that is where the audit needs to take place.

I don't think that most fans understand that those are the people that actually give the recommendations. Those are the people that are really responsible for who does (and doesn't) get drafted. Most of these guys seem to be from the Rutherford era, but a few from Shero (pre 2014).

Shero, Rutherford, nor Hextall are watching a bunch of games for each of a few hundred prospects each year. Maybe these scouts are just giving really not good information to the GMs.

[willeyeam]

I think our system probably would have looked the same 7-8 years ago and we made due. Player development is equally important and we seem to be good at that side of the equation

[Dickie Dunn]

Who is responsible for the rise in Scandinavian fliers? Because they suck at their job.

[iamjs]

Quick. Do Angelo Esposito

Man, this is tough to look at... https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/1 ... o-esposito

2nd tier Czech league and he only put up a goal in 9 games as his grand finale? Yikes.

Were his knees that bad where he couldn't keep up or was he just mailing it in at that point?

[iamjs]

What has the Penguins amateur scout department looked like over the last 10 years or so? Both NA and Euro? Has there been turnover, or has it been the same group of "not good at judging talent" guys most of the time? I know that Allvin has been promoted, somehow failing upward, but has management done anything to try to improve the guys that actually watch these kids everyday?

Colin Alexander is a crossover guy (important) - hired in 2016 from Seattle (WHL), promoted to crossover scout in 2020. He brought Dan McLean with him as well around the same time as an amateur scout, likely our WHL guy.
Al Santilli has been here since 2011, promoted to crosssover guy recently.

Jamie Huffman hired in 2017 from Sioux City (USHL)
Petri Pakaslahti hired in 2016

Brian Fitzgerald has been here forever (since the lockout at least).
Jay Heinbuck has been here forever, demoted in 2016.
Tommy Westlund since 2012 at least...
Luc Gauthier since 2008.
Frank Golden since 2014.
Warren Young has been on since 2013, likely focuses on goalies in place of Meloche. Our goalie drafting has been really good since then, I'd say...

Meloche is actually still on the books, so is Kevin Stevens...I imagine they're just part time guys at best...

So, just based on what's on the card, we have had no so much turnover...but I'm also not including the guys we have let go/lost in this time either...Wayne Meier retired a few years ago, Ron Pyette was here for a while and went to Buffalo, etc.

Maybe that is where the audit needs to take place.

I don't think that most fans understand that those are the people that actually give the recommendations. Those are the people that are really responsible for who does (and doesn't) get drafted. Most of these guys seem to be from the Rutherford era, but a few from Shero (pre 2014).

Shero, Rutherford, nor Hextall are watching a bunch of games for each of a few hundred prospects each year. Maybe these scouts are just giving really not good information to the GMs.

Ask and you shall receive. We have new scouts.