Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

King Colby
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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby King Colby » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:14 pm

Kahun is better than sheary. Kahun and a 1st is significantly better than kapanen. Just dumb.

willeyeam
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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby willeyeam » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:10 pm

The issue with Kahun was that we we're going to be able to afford him right?

Dickie Dunn
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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby Dickie Dunn » Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:41 pm

Was heading toward a decently sized RFA payday AND was not happy with his role here.

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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby Gaucho » Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:43 pm

What role did he envision for himself?

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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby Dickie Dunn » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:34 pm

One where he wasn’t considered to be a healthy scratch.

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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby Gaucho » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:00 pm

I thought he had established himself quite nicely after a slow start- The trade didn't make sense at all.

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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby mikey » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:50 pm

Not sure what I said or if I said anything about this trade already as I've been on vacation for the last week...but what is this...? What are we doing? Why?

At 15th overall you have a real shot at an "A" prospect in a group that has zero. You can add an "A" player, maybe one that can play in a year or year and a half maybe while your window for winning is still cracked...instead, you cash that in for a third line winger, who sometimes plays tough, and sometimes doesn't show up, and sometimes can shoot and occasionally make a decent hands play, but is tough to find chemistry with because he doesn't have anywhere near the hockey sense that his dad did and really isn't improving as a player at 23 years old...he's just kind of stagnating, maybe even regressing a bit in terms of skills...I don't see how this tangibly helps us...Kapanen is a Bjugstad replacement as a third liner, but just not a center...like I always say, if you're gonna cash out on your biggest trade chip, it's gotta address your biggest need...so already that's a failure...

ERod I already predicted we wouldn't qualify anyhow, so that's a non asset to me...Warsofsky is also a non-asset. Hallander I talked about recently, there isn't a lot lost there in a vacuum, but to us, given our prospect pool, that's just an unnecessary thing for me...and I know we're trying to win now, but Hallander's ceiling was Kapanen, so if you just waited a year, maybe you would have had something there...I don't know...again, in a vacuum, he's not a big loss, but at the same time: Why?

Aberg I had time for back in the day, he can really shoot...but he's signed in the KHL, I doubt he's coming back...a 27 year old with 17 career goals...I mean, at some point, you have to call time...so that's a non-asset...

Lindgren I didn't even know about, so I put some tape on him...I got through eight shifts and turned it off...not a good skater, not good defensively, not strong, no shot...he jumps into the rush and supports the breakout well, I thought he was a pretty good outlet passer...but that's not an NHL player, and frankly, I don't think it's even close...so that's a non-asset...

So it's Kapanen for 15 and Hallander...I suppose we saved some real money in terms of what we are getting, so if the "let's start cutting back" thing is about to go down, Kapanen is owed just a shade over $5 mil in real money over the next two seasons, but represents $6.4 mil in cap space over that same time...he'll remain an RFA at that point...but with the new adjustment to the QO system, we're going to have to qualify on the cap, not the salary, so no real help there...but we'll retain his rights...

I just don't know what problem we addressed...we have a third line winger who isn't smart enough to drive his own line, so maybe he's a middle six winger that you can put with Malkin or something (Kapanen worked well with Matthews two years ago) and just go, "ok, this is Zucker Jr., just figure it out...he can carry it across a line, he can shoot, he'll go get pucks for you"...or was it done to strengthen the area around McCann as 3C, give him a better transition player and a player that's better on the wall than him, that way McCann can play a little bit better defense and kind of be our Derek Stepan...I don't know...

This team continues to be a mishmash of spare parts with no real philosophy or even a SOP...it's like we're playing Eastside Hockey Manager or NHL '20 Franchise Mode after crushing up and snorting some Ambos...

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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby Lelldorin » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:41 pm

I have already flamed this trade twice.

I wouldn't even do something like this on Eastside or Football Manager. And I only look at the overall ability score when I acquire players :(

Pavel Bure
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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby Pavel Bure » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:21 pm

What I don’t get.

Jake-Crosby-McCann seemed to have something and was broken up to put McCann as a 3rd line center which he was very okay at.
.
Rust-Malkin-Kahun has some real good things starting up before Kahoun got hurt. When he came back he went right back on that line and clicked again.
.
I guess at this point we have the Zucker situation to deal with. Can he or Rust play RW?
.
After the first two lines go ahead and spare part it. We have the tools to put out two productive lines. At this point in the careers of Crosby/Malkin isn’t it more about lightning in a bottle than balance up and down the lines anyway. Oh well.

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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby Gaucho » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:32 pm

Can Rust play RW? Huh?

mikey
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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby mikey » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:35 pm

Obama_confused.gif

crusherstasiak
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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby crusherstasiak » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:09 pm

Not sure what I said or if I said anything about this trade already as I've been on vacation for the last week...but what is this...? What are we doing? Why?

At 15th overall...
So it's Kapanen for 15 and Hallander...I suppose we saved some real money in terms of what we are getting, so if the "let's start cutting
this is well written insight
made better by the fact that it agrees with me ;)
also

i said something once about preferring barzal to another center and you said i was crazy and i replied i wasn't serious (i wasn't serious).
i can't remember the other center (maybe it was scheifele?) but i'm hard pressed to come up with a young center other than mcdavid draisaitl and matthews who's better right now

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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby mikey » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:24 pm

Hmph, don't recall...I had Barzal at 6 or 7 on my draft board that year, so I feel like I always pumped his tires...I'd put Jack Eichel in that conversation for the record as well...how about Aho and Pettersson too...as if anyone is really in the conversation with the big 2 or possibly 3 right now anyhow...

Pavel Bure
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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby Pavel Bure » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:29 pm

Okay then, should he. I could be misremembering but his breakout season was mostly on LW right?

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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby mikey » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:42 pm

He has spent the overwhelming majority of his adult life playing RW...

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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby Dickie Dunn » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:24 pm

At 15th overall you have a real shot at an "A" prospect in a group that has zero.
Do you think part of the willingness to make this trade (and trade picks in general) stems from having little collective confidence in the ability of this front office and scouting department being able to find that A prospect? Draft history in the GMJR tenure makes it look like making a decent pick is rocket science.

crusherstasiak
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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby crusherstasiak » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:24 pm

@mikey it was eichel
i'm guessing you'd still prefer him 9as would i) but the gap isn't as wide-at least for now
especially after that r to l 1st assist pass to bailey a couple games ago

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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby MR25 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:25 pm

Wouldn't draft history in GMJRs tenure be bad because we've only had, what, 1 first round pick during that time frame?

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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby mikey » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:49 pm

At 15th overall you have a real shot at an "A" prospect in a group that has zero.
Do you think part of the willingness to make this trade (and trade picks in general) stems from having little collective confidence in the ability of this front office and scouting department being able to find that A prospect? Draft history in the GMJR tenure makes it look like making a decent pick is rocket science.
I mean, you'd like to think this was an organizational decision, right? You have had all your scouting meetings by now, you should have your draft board, you have done your mocks...I think you have a good idea of what you think of what's there at 15...obviously, if they did that, they believe that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze compared to what they think a redo on Kapanen (plus interest) is worth...

Now, maybe there wasn't a lot of influence from the amateur side...maybe it was a pro and GMJR push that got it done...I don't know the answer to that. I'm not certain JR is at rinks anymore...so putting the drafting on him assumes that he's hiring bad scouts more than he is bad at drafting...I have run into some GMs at the rinks over the last few years, he's not one of them for me...doesn't mean that's always the case, but just saying it to make sure we focus the blame slightly more targetedly...

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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby mikey » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:49 pm

@mikey it was eichel
i'm guessing you'd still prefer him 9as would i) but the gap isn't as wide-at least for now
especially after that r to l 1st assist pass to bailey a couple games ago
Still Jack, but closer than it ought to be...one is in a tough spot...

Dickie Dunn
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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby Dickie Dunn » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:48 pm

Wouldn't draft history in GMJRs tenure be bad because we've only had, what, 1 first round pick during that time frame?
They do weird **** in the middle rounds. Random Euro trash, overage junior and college players, senior Euro vets like Simon, etc.

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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby Gaucho » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:47 am

The Penguins' draft record since 2014 has to be the worst in the league.

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Pens trade first rounder and change for Kasperi Kapanen and change

Postby mikey » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:45 am

Relative to what they've had to work with, maybe Buffalo...

2014:
Reinhart (2nd liner) at 2 over Draisaitl
B.Lemieux (4th liner) at 31
Looks like they probably have a goal scorer at 181 in Olofsson to be fair

2015: Jack at 2 obviously...but the rest of that looks pretty empty...

2016: Nylander at 8 is already out of the organization for Jokiharju...the 3rd pick was already traded to get Jeff Skinner...not much going here...

2017: Mittlestadt at 8 is stagnating a bit...they do have the goalie Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen (#37) who looks good...

2018: Dahlin at 1 obviously...scouts openly laughed at the selection of Mattias Samuelsson at 32...

2019: Long way to go, but Cozens at 7 is not a player I had in my top 15, but we'll see how that shakes out...

So they've had some real draft capital...six top 10 picks, 19 top 75 picks...we have had zero top 20 picks, 9 top 75 picks...naturally, we're worse because no top 10 picks, but we have just as much to show outside of their top 3 picks really...

##

Detroit hasn't done so hot either...

2014: Larkin at 15 is a big hit...everything else is no dice...

2015: Svechnikov at 19 is a bust, no one else on that list will play a game...

2016: Cholo at 20 and Hronek at 53 looks like they'll make it...I'm not sure anything else will...

2017: Looks like a mess, including #9 overall...

2018: Don't care for either first round pick...#33 and #67 looks like they have some promise though...

2019: May be a saving grace, but it's too soon to tell...

Ignoring 2019, two top-10 picks, 15 top 75 picks...they're not much better off than us either...

Still though, you're right...we do stink at this...I had to really struggle just to find teams that might be a little bit close...

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