2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Jim
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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby Jim » Fri May 24, 2019 9:16 am

He hit at already at 33, in fact, I think that exceeds it. I don't love him...and I know for a fact that you won't either if these notes from 2017ish hold true for his time with us...

Jason Zucker (LW/RW) - Speedy but somewhat immature offensive winger. "Immature" is a reference to his general skill set and how he plays the game. He plays like an advanced junior player in a lot of ways. As a winger, his defensive responsibility is weaker, allowing him to fly the zone with his speed a little bit - which is fine in the right dosage. But he plays a light-on-his-toes, finesse offensive game and is still a half-beat away from being in the right spot at the right time. He compensates for this with terrific speed and a great burst. He makes a lot of "hope" passes and when they connect, they set up terrific scoring chances, but when they don't, they reflect poorly. Every player makes these passes, but Zucker makes a lot of low percentage plays. His shot is not overpowering enough to score from distance and, perhaps as a result, he tries to make one extra move sometimes that just leaves you scratching your head. He'll give up a forehand shot in the slot when he's coming with speed in exchange for pulling the puck to his backhand and trying to make a pass back through the seam to the far post - which, for a player of this skill set, is just a little too creative for his own good. He only has average hands...most of his one-on-one moves involve a shoulder or head fake and then going wide with speed. He has above average NHL tools, to be sure, but may not be a reliable, consistent weapon. He is not strong, nor does he have exceptional balance - this mitigates his game considerably in the high-rent areas of the rink. He has the speed to pop in and out of holes/soft areas, but he can be stymied with relative ease by even average sized players. Zucker is not physical nor is he a noteworthy defensive player.

Role: Second line, speed winger like Mason Raymond

Rask is a buyout candidate if he's under 26...if he's not still, then it's reclamation project. This would give us another big, ubiquitous center who doesn't play the game with much emotion or purpose...Jugs at least has a shot, I feel like I don't know who Victor Rask is anymore...he hurt his wrist or something and now it looks like he just doesn't want to play anymore, he's slow too...I don't know what our record is with rehabbing centers, but this is a project and he'll need a really potent offensive winger to have a chance to hop out of this deep, deep funk...

Two words: David Perron. Put up 28g once, came to Pittsburgh and put up 16 goals in 86 games. Production increase is not a given when coming to Pittsburgh.

Zucker is a 20g/45pt guy with one fluke good year. He gets a lot of ice time, including a lot of pp time, and he is still a 20g/45pt guy. His overall game is not far from Kessel's overall game, but he is not the offensive threat that Kessel is (scoring or play making). He is only $1.3M cheaper so that is not even a good thing.

Rask has a $4Mx3 contract for a "broken" 4th liner. He is actually a worse option than keeping Johnson.

Only a $550K cap savings for making the team considerably lesser.

This trade would be a strong 0-3 for Pittsburgh.

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby shmenguin » Fri May 24, 2019 9:18 am

RE: Maatta. His defensive stats are great, right? His his continual failure of the eyeball test the issue with other GMs?

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby Jim » Fri May 24, 2019 9:19 am

If the Kessel trade to Minny doesn’t include their first rounder, I don’t want it. There’s no one on that team, to me at least, really doesn’t anything for us.

Agree.

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby mikey » Fri May 24, 2019 9:43 am

Oh, we're trying to get faster again? I thought we were going to become a mean old push-back machine?

I read the other day that the Pens lead the league in hits last this season. I was like

Surely there has been a mistake or I was dreaming or whatever.
We overcount... I can't find the site I used to know that had away hits only, but I'd guess that would take some starch out of our pantaloons...

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby mikey » Fri May 24, 2019 9:48 am

@mikey , what's your impression of Phil's trade value across the league? I love the dude and would prefer to not trade him, but I think the recognition that he's a soon to be 32 year old massive pain in the ass who drives coaches absolutely **** crazy has a definite impact on his value to the point where I honestly don't think the rumored trade is that out of line, especially once you add in dumping JMFJ. Am I on the right track here with Phil's value or am I dumb like usual?

Also, your most recent post is a good reminder of why I hated the Maatta deal when it was made.
It really varies is my impression. Some teams really believe he's a key piece still, others are a little scared of him...it really kind of mirrors fans thoughts in a weird way...

I'm a big proponent of trading a guy a year early as opposed to a year late...so moving Kessel doesn't give me a ton of heartburn, but I also want to know what the plan is overall...I guess what I'm saying is, you can make a "below average" Kessel trade if you can make an "above average" Maatta trade or some such...ya know? You have three, four months to build this in your image, but it's like the political thread for me...do I want to see the Department of Education killed? Yes. But only if it's part of greater upheaval...just doing that in and of itself accomplishes zero...

My impression is that JMFJ has significantly more negative value than Victor Rask does...so, from that perspective, the value is there for this kind of deal...but trade value doesn't play on the ice, players do...so, again, it's what are you (JR) trying to accomplish by October 1?

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby mikey » Fri May 24, 2019 9:59 am

RE: Maatta. His defensive stats are great, right? His his continual failure of the eyeball test the issue with other GMs?
I don't know what stats every team uses...they have their proprietary stuff just like we do. So I can't readily answer that.

Eye test favors Maatta actually...because of how smart and stout defensively he is, he's just not a good skater. The feeling is that they can get this player for cheaper...much like we just about did with Marcus Pettersson...where even though the ugly Swede isn't as good as Maatta, the $3 million difference or whatever is, means that the value is better for Pettersson, ya know?

So that's a big hold up. I heard they tried before on Maatta and they didn't get the value they wanted out of it and elected to keep him...they made a pretty grave error by scratching him in the playoffs, that'll scare away a lot of teams...

I think the key to look for might be a team with young, full-figured RD...maybe like Dante Fabbro in Nashville, I think Maatta is a good match for him as a partner...trouble is, Nashville is a defense factory, so I don't think they would add Maatta...

Would they do it for Kyle Turris and an incentive? Well, that might get their attention...Turris had a rough year and he has a lot of coin left...but then we're taking on a lot more money...I realized this morning that Rask is over 26, so the buyout thing isn't going to happen, if it could, then maybe you're open to this idea...but I just don't think that will materialize, too much risk...

You look at Detroit and Filip Hronek, and you say maybe that's a match...would Detroit swap Darren Helm for Maatta? Yeah, I think so...that adds some declining speed to our lineup, but that basically undoes the Hagelin trade in a pretty embarrassing way...

I should say, I don't know if we're actually trying to become a speed team...I don't know what we're trying to do...I talked to someone close to the team over the weekend and we both agreed that we don't know what the identity purports to be...as such, it makes trade proposals on a message board very difficult...everyone says we want to get younger, faster, and tougher...only about three teams actually accomplish that mission...

Sorry, I tend to ramble in these spots...

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby shmenguin » Fri May 24, 2019 10:50 am

call me crazy, but this suddenly seems like an offseason that i don't want in the hands of rutherford.

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby Dickie Dunn » Fri May 24, 2019 11:09 am

call me crazy, but this suddenly seems like an offseason that i don't want in the hands of rutherford.
I know who you'd prefer to have running the show.
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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby mikey » Fri May 24, 2019 11:37 am

I'll take that as an endorsement that you'd want me to do it...and I humbly accept.

Maatta, Bjugstad, Simon to NYR for Vladislav Namestnikov, Pavel Buchnevich, and Joey Keane
Kessel to Arizona for 14th overall and Christian Fischer
JMFJ to Minnesota for Victor Rask and a 6th
Badbranson to Buffalo for Evan Rodrigues
Bluegers, Almeida and a conditional 2020 3rd to the NYI for Devon Toews - condition is that Toews hits 30 points and is a plus player in 2019-20, otherwise, no pick.

Sign Brendan Gaunce - 1 yr, $750k
Re-sign Buchnevich - 2 yrs, $2.75 mil per
Pettersson re-signs - 2 yrs, $1.8 mil per
Re-sign Rodrigues - 1 yr, $950k

So I'll hold up right there for a moment to breathe...

That leaves us at...

Guentzel-Crosby-Buchnevich
Namestnikov-Malkin-Rust
McCann-Rask-Hornqvist
ZAR-Gaunce-Fischer
Rodrigues

Dumo-Letang
Pettersson-Schultz
Toews-Ruhwedel

Murray
DeSmith/Jarry

Now, that's not a good roster. I get that. But there's more skill now, there's more speed, there's another high draft pick this year, and we have $11 million in cap space more or less...now, there's no d-men that we can reasonably get with that...but maybe we take a shot at a top-six forward...Jeff Skinner, there's a relationship there...Jordan Eberle is out there...Gustav Nyquist is out there...Matt Duchene is out there...there's some guys...betting on free agency is tough, but you can get a sense beforehand...

I leave us in a lesser spot, but this is June 21st, not August 7th...there's time, money, and some assets...

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby Jim » Fri May 24, 2019 12:21 pm

Pettersson re-signs - 2 yrs, $1.8 mil per

I am very interested to see what Pettersson resigns for. People are all over the board with him on the AGMs, from $1M to $3M+.

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby shafnutz05 » Fri May 24, 2019 1:42 pm

Hits to me, simply mean you don't have the puck enough.
Yes, and this point was driven home ad nauseam in the 2016 series against the Sharks, 2017 series against the Preds/Caps, etc. We didn't mind if the other team doubled us up chasing hits.

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby Trip McNeely » Fri May 24, 2019 2:07 pm

There is zero reason to trade the best player in the deal without getting picks and without getting cap space. I’m fine with trading kesse but bringing back Zucker and Rask makes zero sense. Unless you immediately trade Bjustad or flip Rask, there is no sense to be made of this. But I’d much have Bjustad than Rask anyways.

And I’d rather have their first rounder than Zucker. Not because I think Zucker will help us less than a first...I think a first rounder plus cap space for Nyquist/Skinner/High end FA is better than Zucker

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby mikey » Fri May 24, 2019 2:24 pm

Guentzel-Crosby-McCann
Zucker-Malkin-Bjugstad
Simon-Rask-Rust
ZAR-Bluegers-Hornqvist

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Pettersson-Gudbranson

:?:

It's a big bet on Rask...but you'd have the option of getting Guentzel, Jugs or Cans instead that 3C hole instead...what I posed above gives Jugs less to care...or not care...about...

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby shmenguin » Fri May 24, 2019 2:28 pm

this situation. it blows.

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby Gaucho » Fri May 24, 2019 3:03 pm

The best choice at 3C is ... Dominik Simon.

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby mikey » Fri May 24, 2019 3:36 pm

Get this guy into witness protection quick...

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby Morkle » Fri May 24, 2019 3:58 pm

I agree Simon is best used on the 3C. That's what he is, a 3rd liner.

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby mikey » Fri May 24, 2019 4:11 pm

I don't think he can manage that much ice...that's a bigger ask than 1LW in a lot of ways...

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby meow » Fri May 24, 2019 4:18 pm

Especially being the third wheel on L1

Let’s explore our old friends in Carolina and get Staal back

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby NTP66 » Fri May 24, 2019 4:22 pm

Source of the post Let’s explore our old friends in Carolina and get Staal back
I'd be on board.

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby meow » Fri May 24, 2019 4:27 pm

Sutter, Dumoulin and Pouliot for Staal

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby shmenguin » Fri May 24, 2019 5:37 pm

That turned out pretty even in the end.

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby willeyeam » Fri May 24, 2019 9:46 pm

Phil and Maatta for Staal

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby shmenguin » Tue May 28, 2019 10:59 am

so the word is that kessel vetoed the wild trade because they arent competitive enough. which is a hell of a take from a guy who has been virtually worthless in meaningful games for the last 2 years.

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2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

Postby NTP66 » Tue May 28, 2019 11:14 am

Is it? They finished at the bottom of their division, and have no elite anything.

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