2019 Penguins Offseason/Draft Thread

[Dickie Dunn]

Has there been any legitimate conjecture as to which teams are on his "will accept a trade to" list?

In 2015 it was Montreal, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Rangers, Bruins, Hawks, Kings, and Minnesota. I would imagine it's probably something like Vegas, Tampa, Nashville, Toronto, Anaheim, Dallas, Washington, and San Jose. A combination of teams that could win in the near future and also have minimal cap space available.

[Gaucho]

His preference obviously is to not get traded, so probably divisional rivals, as such deals are unlikey to begin with, also teams with very limited cap space. The number of teams he'd actually like to go to is probably very short.

[Jim]

Has there been any legitimate conjecture as to which teams are on his "will accept a trade to" list?

Rutherford said that Kessel updates his list on June 15th, which was this past Saturday. I want to know the differences between the list as it appeared on the 14th, and the list today.

[mikey]

I think there's two reasonable angles for it...

Angle one: There are legitimate, low-level, "quiet" markets where he would want to go or where there is a relationship...so we're talking teams like Arizona, Colorado, St. Louis (maybe no longer), Dallas, Florida, Carolina...teams like that, right?

Angle two: He created a basically a full NTC by putting teams on the list (he only needs to get to eight) that either wouldn't take him back or we wouldn't trade with...so, Boston, Toronto, Philadelphia, Washington, Islanders, Rangers, etc.

Which way that actually is, I don't know nor do I have any inkling on it...I do believe that Kessel would waive for an acceptable situation...what that means, I don't really know...I do think there's some smoke with Arizona and I think that's legit...but I didn't get the impression that they were that close on the compensation when that broke down...maybe Jim will offer to share a Panera bread bowl with John Chayka and work it out on Friday...

But I think free agency has to clear up first...that said, you get to the draft, you have a few drinks, and you do some fun things...believe me...

[Dickie Dunn]

Has there been any legitimate conjecture as to which teams are on his "will accept a trade to" list?

Rutherford said that Kessel updates his list on June 15th, which was this past Saturday. I want to know the differences between the list as it appeared on the 14th, and the list today.

The new list is probably Washington, Islanders, Carolina, Columbus, Philadelphia, Rangers, Devils, and Tampa.

[Morkle]

I wonder how much that chaps Jim's butt. He confirmed on Madden show yesterday that he did have a trade lined up, and it was Phil who nixed it. I somewhat found it refreshing because Jim said: "he's earned the right to do that."

Having the right to do it or not, seems like it's gotta suck for both sides.

One in that you feel you need to move the player to improve the team, and you feel you're worse now because you couldn't get the guy you wanted.

Two in being that you know the team management doesn't want you on the team anymore, and no matter what they say, they've confirmed it by simply asking you to waive it to go to Minny. It's business, but that still sucks.

[Gaucho]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D9Wga9bXYAEfp74.jpg

[NTP66]

That's an ugly preseason schedule.

[Gaucho]

Seems like the same as every year.

[dodint]

Hot Take: With Phil having control in this situation maybe Sullivan will decide to coach the team he has instead of the team he wants.

[shmenguin]

Hot Take: With Phil having control in this situation maybe Sullivan will decide to coach the team he has instead of the team he wants.

I think he should get a few months to try to learn this fact and then come 2020, he can go find happiness somewhere else if he still prefers the scent of his own flatus.

[shmenguin]

And when is this reluctance to trade within your own division going to be put to bed? Grow up.

[Morkle]

Hot Take: With Phil having control in this situation maybe Sullivan will decide to coach the team he has instead of the team he wants.

I think he should get a few months to try to learn this fact and then come 2020, he can go find happiness somewhere else if he still prefers the scent of his own flatus.

I tend to think they have another up and down first half like they did this year, and Phil only has to out-run the coach.

[Jim]

And when is this reluctance to trade within your own division going to be put to bed? Grow up.

I never understood that.

If the player is not good enough for you to want to keep, then what harm is it for him to go to a rival. Wouldn't you would want that?
If the player is too "difficult" for you to want to keep, then what harm is it for him to go to a rival. Wouldn't you would want that?

[Beveridge]

Because in a short lived tenure position as GM, if you trade in your own division and it goes sideways, you might not get another chance. Easy to hide from the trade that wasn't made than from the one that was. Especially if within own division.

If I'm an owner hiring, I'd hire a GM that got fired for this or that. Got fired for trading in your own division and it backfires? Hard pass.

[Jim]

Because in a short lived tenure position as GM, if you trade in your own division and it goes sideways, you might not get another chance. Easy to hide from the trade that wasn't made than from the one that was. Especially if within own division.

If I'm an owner hiring, I'd hire a GM that got fired for this or that. Got fired for trading in your own division and it backfires? Hard pass.

You make the trade that best helps YOUR team. The other team is not relevant, not in who they are nor in how much it helps them.

[Beveridge]

I get that, but their neck is on the line. A trade with Philly might be in the best interest of the team, but if it doesn't pan out, I might not see another GM offer ever.

[shmenguin]

I get that, but their neck is on the line. A trade with Philly might be in the best interest of the team, but if it doesn't pan out, I might not see another GM offer ever.

This is where “grow up” comes into play across the board - from fans to owners.

[mikey]

Simple answer: what if you're wrong (or in this case, guaranteed to be trading the best player in the deal) and he beats the wheels off you in a playoff series.

It's one thing to fool a guy into taking Luca Sbisa...it's another talking about Kessel...

The Washington/Philly trade was the first time NHLers were exchanged between them ever I believe...

[Beveridge]

I don't disagree with either of you. I was just relaying my thoughts on the "why don't they trade within division" comments.

I don't think it's as easy as "best for team" or "grow up" when your future is part of the risk with a trade like that. Easy to recover from bad trades, but really hard to recover from bad trades to a divisional team/rival.

[shmenguin]

Simple answer: what if you're wrong (or in this case, guaranteed to be trading the best player in the deal) and he beats the wheels off you in a playoff series.

It's one thing to fool a guy into taking Luca Sbisa...it's another talking about Kessel...

The Washington/Philly trade was the first time NHLers were exchanged between them ever I believe...

That kind of “what if” is one factor out of dozens that can tip a playoff series. I don’t think “oh no. The guy we traded is torching us” is much different than “oh no. The guy we traded for predictably isn’t performing - because the guy we really wanted was off limits”.

Build your team to be the best it can be and go from there. This is a silly artifact from the pre-common sense days of pro sports.

[Jim]

I get that, but their neck is on the line. A trade with Philly might be in the best interest of the team, but if it doesn't pan out, I might not see another GM offer ever.

I think that you are putting far too much value in the division thing. A trade with Philadelphia failing or succeeding has the same value as a trade with Vancouver failing or succeeding.

The Pens traded Recchi to the Flyers
Robitaille and Ulf to the Rangers
Nedved to the Rangers
Kovalev to the Rangers (for garbage)
Jagr to the Caps (for prospects that ended up being garbage)

The Caps then traded Jagr to the Rangers (and $18M for a broken Carter)

[mikey]

I get that, but their neck is on the line. A trade with Philly might be in the best interest of the team, but if it doesn't pan out, I might not see another GM offer ever.

I think that you are putting far too much value in the division thing. A trade with Philadelphia failing or succeeding has the same value as a trade with Vancouver failing or succeeding.

The Pens traded Recchi to the Flyers
Robitaille and Ulf to the Rangers
Nedved to the Rangers
Kovalev to the Rangers (for garbage)
Jagr to the Caps (for prospects that ended up being garbage)

The Caps then traded Jagr to the Rangers (and $18M for a broken Carter)

Was Pittsburgh in their division for any of those trades? I guess maybe the Recchi one...?

[iamjs]

I get that, but their neck is on the line. A trade with Philly might be in the best interest of the team, but if it doesn't pan out, I might not see another GM offer ever.

I think that you are putting far too much value in the division thing. A trade with Philadelphia failing or succeeding has the same value as a trade with Vancouver failing or succeeding.

The Pens traded Recchi to the Flyers
Robitaille and Ulf to the Rangers
Nedved to the Rangers
Kovalev to the Rangers (for garbage)
Jagr to the Caps (for prospects that ended up being garbage)

The Caps then traded Jagr to the Rangers (and $18M for a broken Carter)

I didn't think they could move more than $5m at a time. I think that's why the PIT/WSH deal was listed as 4,999,999.99, because they weren't allowed to go over that $5m limit.

[Dickie Dunn]

Lots of forgetting Tibbetts for Manderville ITT.