Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Dickie Dunn
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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby Dickie Dunn » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:19 am

Even strength points per 60 minutes of even strength TOI:

1. Dea - 3.73
2. Sid - 3.07
3. Jake - 2.77
4. Geno - 2.66
5. Phil - 2.27
6. Cans - 2.22
7. Rust - 2.03
8. ZAR - 2.03
9. Teddy - 1.91
10. Simon - 1.75
11. Horny - 1.70
12. Grant - 1.53
13. Sprong - 1.51
14. Brass - 1.44
15. DAD - 1.39
16. WILSON! - 1.34
17. Pearson - 1.32
18. Jugs - 1.24
19. Hags - 0.87
20. Sheahan - 0.82

And here I was thinking mikey found some cherry picked stat to help the Simon argument. He's 6th among forwards in EV TOI and 11th in EV TOI/GP. The Pens 2nd most frequently used line this season is Jake-Sid-Simon and almost 400 of Simon's 822 minutes of EV TOI have come on the wing of Sid or Geno, yet he's 10th in EV PTS/60 EV TOI. Pretty sure this indicates he's a drag of a third wheel on the top two lines.

mikey
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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby mikey » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:23 am

5th among Pens forwards in ES points...but 9th among forwards in ES ice time.

1. Crosby 65
2. Guentzel 59
3. Malkin 45
4. Kessel 43
5. Rust 31
6. Simon 24
7. Hornqvist 23
8. Aston-Reese 16
9. Cullen 14
10. McCann 13

Bennett, no such production. Only 37 ES points in 129 games as a Penguin. Simon already has more.
That's kind of by default, considering injuries to ZAR, Horny and Cullen and McCann only being here a month. Give Cullen the time Simon got on Sid's line and he'd have 24 points too.
He's 5th in ES scoring and 9th in ES time by default...? How does that work?

Clearly it doesn't, because there's no way that Cullen could produce like that. Plays die with Cullen far more often, as savvy as he is.

Even in minimal time last year (33 games), his ES pts/min was up in the same area (4th on the team, not including Brassard, who didn't play most of the season with us). 12th in ES TOI among forwards. 10th in ES points.

Hornqvist and Simon have played the same amount of games.

My point isn't that Simon is amazing, he's not. But the idea that he's not producing with his time and that our 42 year old 4th line center could produce at this rate doesn't jive with reality...statistically or by what happens on the rink...

mikey
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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby mikey » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:33 am

Even strength points per 60 minutes of even strength TOI:

1. Dea - 3.73
2. Sid - 3.07
3. Jake - 2.77
4. Geno - 2.66
5. Phil - 2.27
6. Cans - 2.22
7. Rust - 2.03
8. ZAR - 2.03
9. Teddy - 1.91
10. Simon - 1.75
11. Horny - 1.70
12. Grant - 1.53
13. Sprong - 1.51
14. Brass - 1.44
15. DAD - 1.39
16. WILSON! - 1.34
17. Pearson - 1.32
18. Jugs - 1.24
19. Hags - 0.87
20. Sheahan - 0.82

And here I was thinking mikey found some cherry picked stat to help the Simon argument. He's 6th among forwards in EV TOI and 11th in EV TOI/GP. The Pens 2nd most frequently used line this season is Jake-Sid-Simon and almost 400 of Simon's 822 minutes of EV TOI have come on the wing of Sid or Geno, yet he's 10th in EV PTS/60 EV TOI. Pretty sure this indicates he's a drag of a third wheel on the top two lines.
Using incomplete data to draw a conclusion..."pretty sure" indeed. Using less than half of the available data. If the comparison is "how does a player do with linemates" than that needs to be consistent across the board...Simon's time with [player] vs. the alternatives time with [player].

Otherwise, you get backed into situations where you have to explain how Brassard was better here than Bjugstad so far...or Grant/Sprong over the players that they're over...this is what "cherry picked" is, by the way...

shmenguin
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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby shmenguin » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:34 am

cullen is having an underrated stinky season. that much is true.

Lemon Berry Lobster
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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:03 am

Even strength points per 60 minutes of even strength TOI:

1. Dea - 3.73
2. Sid - 3.07
3. Jake - 2.77
4. Geno - 2.66
5. Phil - 2.27
6. Cans - 2.22
7. Rust - 2.03
8. ZAR - 2.03
9. Teddy - 1.91
10. Simon - 1.75
11. Horny - 1.70
12. Grant - 1.53
13. Sprong - 1.51
14. Brass - 1.44
15. DAD - 1.39
16. WILSON! - 1.34
17. Pearson - 1.32
18. Jugs - 1.24
19. Hags - 0.87
20. Sheahan - 0.82

And here I was thinking mikey found some cherry picked stat to help the Simon argument. He's 6th among forwards in EV TOI and 11th in EV TOI/GP. The Pens 2nd most frequently used line this season is Jake-Sid-Simon and almost 400 of Simon's 822 minutes of EV TOI have come on the wing of Sid or Geno, yet he's 10th in EV PTS/60 EV TOI. Pretty sure this indicates he's a drag of a third wheel on the top two lines.
We traded away our best player for an AHL defeneseman :roll:

Dickie Dunn
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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby Dickie Dunn » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:20 am

Even strength points per 60 minutes of even strength TOI:

1. Dea - 3.73
2. Sid - 3.07
3. Jake - 2.77
4. Geno - 2.66
5. Phil - 2.27
6. Cans - 2.22
7. Rust - 2.03
8. ZAR - 2.03
9. Teddy - 1.91
10. Simon - 1.75
11. Horny - 1.70
12. Grant - 1.53
13. Sprong - 1.51
14. Brass - 1.44
15. DAD - 1.39
16. WILSON! - 1.34
17. Pearson - 1.32
18. Jugs - 1.24
19. Hags - 0.87
20. Sheahan - 0.82

And here I was thinking mikey found some cherry picked stat to help the Simon argument. He's 6th among forwards in EV TOI and 11th in EV TOI/GP. The Pens 2nd most frequently used line this season is Jake-Sid-Simon and almost 400 of Simon's 822 minutes of EV TOI have come on the wing of Sid or Geno, yet he's 10th in EV PTS/60 EV TOI. Pretty sure this indicates he's a drag of a third wheel on the top two lines.
We traded away our best player for an AHL defeneseman :roll:
That's the true crime.

dodint
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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby dodint » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:27 am

The Pens must've won, the bickering is relatively tame today.
Was really weird watching a Pens game that they had in hand for the majority of the game.

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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:37 am

it's annoying how neither the Caps nor Isles **** lose

mikey
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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby mikey » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:41 am

The Caps have been good...but the Isles are like .500 over the last month or two probably...they're not good. Though they are structured. Over-achieved big time early on, falling back to earth...

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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby shmenguin » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:44 am

The isles will have a big edge at home. They’re going to bully us, and they’ll get away with it since the officials are going to go along with the 16,000 garbage cans in the stands.

But they’re a typical Trotz team. They get by in the regular season by being structured. Then they have no second gear in the playoffs.

Dickie Dunn
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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby Dickie Dunn » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:45 am

Even strength points per 60 minutes of even strength TOI:

1. Dea - 3.73
2. Sid - 3.07
3. Jake - 2.77
4. Geno - 2.66
5. Phil - 2.27
6. Cans - 2.22
7. Rust - 2.03
8. ZAR - 2.03
9. Teddy - 1.91
10. Simon - 1.75
11. Horny - 1.70
12. Grant - 1.53
13. Sprong - 1.51
14. Brass - 1.44
15. DAD - 1.39
16. WILSON! - 1.34
17. Pearson - 1.32
18. Jugs - 1.24
19. Hags - 0.87
20. Sheahan - 0.82

And here I was thinking mikey found some cherry picked stat to help the Simon argument. He's 6th among forwards in EV TOI and 11th in EV TOI/GP. The Pens 2nd most frequently used line this season is Jake-Sid-Simon and almost 400 of Simon's 822 minutes of EV TOI have come on the wing of Sid or Geno, yet he's 10th in EV PTS/60 EV TOI. Pretty sure this indicates he's a drag of a third wheel on the top two lines.
Using incomplete data to draw a conclusion..."pretty sure" indeed. Using less than half of the available data. If the comparison is "how does a player do with linemates" than that needs to be consistent across the board...Simon's time with [player] vs. the alternatives time with [player].

Otherwise, you get backed into situations where you have to explain how Brassard was better here than Bjugstad so far...or Grant/Sprong over the players that they're over...this is what "cherry picked" is, by the way...
"pretty sure" is a facetious comment and data is incomplete because 1.) I don't have the time right now to look at much else and 2.) god knows where you can find free WOWY stats anymore. What can be learned from my half assed collection of available data, which is still a more thorough look at the situation than "look! he's 5th in EV scoring and only 9th in EV TOI, he's not that bad!", especially considering that neither data point is correct, is that nearly 50% of his EV TOI has been spent with the two best players on the team yet his production isn't commiserate with someone who is even leeching points off those two and he doesn't produce much when not on a line without one of those two.

Again, this isn't to dismiss Simon as a useless or bad, I just don't think he's as skilled or impactful as you do.

mikey
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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby mikey » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:45 pm

The criteria changed from production to production with certain players without warning...as we continue to meander down the road attempting to find more fault than there is...

I don't find Simon to be particularly impactful, citing that he's a third wheel that just keeps plays from dying more than alternatives...

More poignantly probably, who is the clearly superior alternative in the organization?

willeyeam
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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby willeyeam » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:01 pm

BLUEGER

dodint
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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby dodint » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:15 pm

:lol:

mikey
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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby mikey » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:25 pm

Our current second line center?

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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:45 pm

Image

Lemon Berry Lobster
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Official GDT: Game 77 - Pens @ Rangers 03/5/19

Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:00 pm

Kinda surprised nothing came of the headshot on McCann...
I'm not actually surprised...

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