Official GDT: Game 1 - Pens vs Caps - 10/04/18 7:08 EDT

[Blue Canary]

Well, 'Om, you've gotten us off to a winning start.

Thank you for your continued service. Cheers, and 'night, all!

[MR25]

I'm still confused as to how the call on the ice was a good goal for Oshie's 2nd when the guy staring right at the play gave the no goal signal

[Morkle]

I mean that's the most ridiculous thing I've read tonight. I really only hated the Orpik goal, blaming a goalie because he can't adapt to "firewagon hockey" is just insanity. MAF again, was a guy who was routinely hated because the Pens got comfortable thinking he'd bail them out, and he didn't until the Pens tightened it up for the cup runs.

I think we're all on the same page, Morkle.

Speaking just for myself, I'm not blaming Murray, although I didn't think he was great tonight (but it's game 1, for cryin' out loud). He was left twisting in the wind a lot by the guys in front of him. My point is that it would've been silly for the Pens to think that they could move away from a winning formula of solid team D in front of him. They apparently have in stretches, whether or not they planned to do so.

No, it was in response to the rant you quoted. I mean I am just stunned by that. The "firewagon hockey" was what it ended up being when Bylsma got canned, and honestly, the routine pinching of defensemen giving up 2 on 1s, the passes like Geno did directly to Oshie to snipe is just stupidity. If they respect Sullivan so much, then start playing the defensive hockey that they did when he first got hired here, and maybe the goalie that won and helped win 2 consecutive cups could have a chance at getting a third.

Nevermind the narrative that he had the lowest GAA against the Caps last year in the playoffs when they seemingly started playing tighter in front of him, then the back breakers actually came because of his poor hand and miscues. I'd rather blame him for that, rather than the **** that went on tonight.

[Blue Canary]

It’s nice to see more people coming to the realization that Murray is an unathletic, no glove, shooter tutor who greatly benefited from the Penguins playing a “****, this guy ain’t Fleury, let’s clamp it down defensively” game and now that they play run and gun in front of him it looks like he might be blind.

BTW, Dickie, to be clear, I mean that the Pens would be stupid, not you.

[Blue Canary]

I mean that's the most ridiculous thing I've read tonight. I really only hated the Orpik goal, blaming a goalie because he can't adapt to "firewagon hockey" is just insanity. MAF again, was a guy who was routinely hated because the Pens got comfortable thinking he'd bail them out, and he didn't until the Pens tightened it up for the cup runs.

I think we're all on the same page, Morkle.

Speaking just for myself, I'm not blaming Murray, although I didn't think he was great tonight (but it's game 1, for cryin' out loud). He was left twisting in the wind a lot by the guys in front of him. My point is that it would've been silly for the Pens to think that they could move away from a winning formula of solid team D in front of him. They apparently have in stretches, whether or not they planned to do so.

No, it was in response to the rant you quoted. I mean I am just stunned by that. The "firewagon hockey" was what it ended up being when Bylsma got canned, and honestly, the routine pinching of defensemen giving up 2 on 1s, the passes like Geno did directly to Oshie to snipe is just stupidity. If they respect Sullivan so much, then start playing the defensive hockey that they did when he first got hired here, and maybe the goalie that won and helped win 2 consecutive cups could have a chance at getting a third.

Nevermind the narrative that he had the lowest GAA against the Caps last year in the playoffs when they seemingly started playing tighter in front of him, then the back breakers actually came because of his poor hand and miscues. I'd rather blame him for that, rather than the **** that went on tonight.

I don't mean to disrespect any poster by attempting to speak for him/her, so I'll offer my interpretation.

While I think "shooter tutor" might be unduly harsh, I don't find the rest to be unfair. I understood the main points after the introductory criticism of Murray to be the same as ours. Murray benefitted from tighter D (who wouldn't), the Pens have started running-and-gunning again, and the implication is that Murray's deficiencies are highlighted.

And with that, I'll see yinz arahnd later.

BTW, have you guys seen the schedule? Game 2 is Sat. 10/6, but game 3 isn't until Thurs. 10/11? Bleh.

[dodint]

I think Murray does fantastically well for a man missing a left arm.

[MR25]

He plays really small for being 6'4"

[Dickie Dunn]

I mean that's the most ridiculous thing I've read tonight. I really only hated the Orpik goal, blaming a goalie because he can't adapt to "firewagon hockey" is just insanity. MAF again, was a guy who was routinely hated because the Pens got comfortable thinking he'd bail them out, and he didn't until the Pens tightened it up for the cup runs.

I’m not blaming the goalie for the play of team in front of him. I’m saying that the goaltending performance he put up during the two cup runs cannot exist if the team in front of him doesn’t feel like playing defense.

meow has obviously earned his reputation as the goaltending expert on this board, but what I see with Murray is lanky, not very athletic goalie who, when on his game, has solid fundamentals, but doesn’t use his size as effectively as he could, and aims to take away the highest percentage opportunities. When things break down in front of him I don’t think he has the athleticism or, for
the lack of a better term, “raw skills”(ie: high glove) to consistently come up with the big, spectacular save.

In another topic mikey basically described Fleury as a roller coaster of inconsistency where at his best he was incredible and at his worst he was a tire fire and you never really knew what you were going to get.

With Murray I don’t think his peak is as high but I also think his valley doesn’t go as low. He’s not going to come up with the spectacular glove save on a moronic 2 on 1 as consistently, but if you limit the opposition’s prime scoring opportunities he’s going to save that **** AND not **** the puck into his own net and the other nonsense Fleury did in that Islanders series.

I also think Murray puts up solid postseason numbers because teams revert to an “everything to the net” strategy where letting the play develop into a high percentage scoring opportunity is eschewed in favor of any opportunity. So instead of possibly staring down an uncontested wrister in the slot, he’s getting a low point shot through legs, which he’s always on the ice to stop because it’s the high percentage play.

TLDR: If the Penguins want to be successful they better give a **** about the level of their team defense in front of their goalie because he’s not built to bail their asses out.

[blackjack68]

For the record, Fleury is getting shellacked by the Flyers.

[Gaucho]

I mean that's the most ridiculous thing I've read tonight. I really only hated the Orpik goal, blaming a goalie because he can't adapt to "firewagon hockey" is just insanity. MAF again, was a guy who was routinely hated because the Pens got comfortable thinking he'd bail them out, and he didn't until the Pens tightened it up for the cup runs.

Co-sign

[NTP66]

I mean that's the most ridiculous thing I've read tonight. I really only hated the Orpik goal, blaming a goalie because he can't adapt to "firewagon hockey" is just insanity. MAF again, was a guy who was routinely hated because the Pens got comfortable thinking he'd bail them out, and he didn't until the Pens tightened it up for the cup runs.

Co-sign

[FistOfCaufield]

I think what Dickie is trying to say - is that goalies don't look good if you play fire wagon hockey in front of them. You keep turning it over to TJ Oshie at the blue line, I don't care if Jesus is playing in net... (although I am not saying Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball).

Murray is no different, you play like that in front of him and things can go south.

That being said what I like about Murray in playoff style hockey - is that his style seems built to prevent the dirty goals of the playoff style of hockey... whereas Fleury's style seems to exasperate them. I think if Fleury could harness a balance between the athletic save and the just stop and let the puck hit you somewhere save (and he kind of did last year), he'd be one of the better goalies in the playoffs.

In short, team needs to stop odd man breaks, turnovers... make the other teams earn their ice and if they do - Murray will excel even without the packing it in and blocking shots defense of the playoff teams of recent past.

[Gaucho]

Yes. Yes.

[mikey]

I'm still confused as to how the call on the ice was a good goal for Oshie's 2nd when the guy staring right at the play gave the no goal signal

Officials conferenced on the ice and then made a proper announcement and signal on the ice that they had a good goal and then reviewed it...

[Lemon Berry Lobster]

I think what Dickie is trying to say - is that goalies don't look good if you play fire wagon hockey in front of them. You keep turning it over to TJ Oshie at the blue line, I don't care if Jesus is playing in net... (although I am not saying Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball).

Yeah that turnover was awful. Hard to fault Murray on that one.

[Silentom]

Well, 'Om, you've gotten us off to a winning start.

Thank you for your continued service. Cheers, and 'night, all!

*h/t*

[meow]

Murray has been hella bad, but he’s also been royally hung out to dry

I watched all the goals against again. The only one that makes me want to throw up in my shoe is the Orpik one. The rest aren’t great, but quite a few F ups happened just prior to the goal.

I think people have to get used to the fact that we have a fairly consistent, non-flashy technician in net. It’s going to be a slog on here if every time he lets in a goal we have people MFing him for not being athletic or whatever reason they feel is justified. He has his weaknesses just like every other keeper has weaknesses.

[NTP66]

The Orpik goal was really the only one where I was like, 'come on what the ****', though I also thought the first goal should have been stopped, as well.

[Lemon Berry Lobster]

I might get flack for this but Simon looked pretty good last night.

[NTP66]

I might get flack for this but Simon looked pretty good last night.

I'm no fan of Simon, but I agree. To add to this, minus one or two miscues, I thought Letang had a very good game.

[Lemon Berry Lobster]

I might get flack for this but Simon looked pretty good last night.

I'm no fan of Simon, but I agree. To add to this, minus one or two miscues, I thought Letang had a very good game.

I'm not much of one either, mainly do to him being forced on Sid's line. Not that I blame him, but I was annoyed by him. That 3rd line was really dangerous most of the night. Letang was solid but the defense as a whole was a dumpster fire.

[NTP66]

Errey said it literally seconds before the game tying goal, but we had way too many east/west passes that were intercepted.

[Jim]

I think Murray does fantastically well for a man missing a left arm.

I chuckled.

[count2infinity]

I think Murray does fantastically well for a man missing a left arm.

I chuckled.

That's pretty good.

[Morkle]

I might get flack for this but Simon looked pretty good last night.

As long as he's on the third line and not top line. I've got no real complaints.