Pens. Flyers. Game 3.

[Blue Canary]

Video of that Gudas/Coutoureyay collision:

https://twitter.com/JamieApody/status/9 ... 74081?s=19

Couturier immediately knew it wasn't good, as evident by his flinging his stick out of the rink.

Looks like his ankle and not his knee, no?

[Troy Loney]

I don't think he'll miss time. I think he flung the stick cause he was pissed.

[Dickie Dunn]

Here's the thing about Bobby Clarke. **** him.

[nocera]

Here's the thing about Bobby Clarke. **** him.

Interesting point. To follow that up, I'd like to add **** him.

[dodint]

My understanding is that he is not a very nice man.

[Blue Canary]

I don't think he'll miss time. I think he flung the stick cause he was pissed.

Watched it a few more times. You're likely right.

[mikey]

1979 Tico Rick's Poll
Most Over-rated
Biggest Crybaby
Biggest Cheap Shot Artist

Seriously, not that Clarke was a bad player by any means, but the type of goonery allowed in the 70s, along with the kind of players that the Flyers surrounded Clarke with, allowed him to be as good as he was. But as I said earlier, there are at least a half dozen, and probably a dozen, players who were better two-way centers than Clarke. One could even argue that Lindros was a better two-way center than Clarke.

He was a multiple Hart winner because the Flyers surrounded him with goons...?

No one could argue 88 was a better two-way center than Clarke and still have hockey credibility...it's not remotely close. Add him to the list of, what can only be described as, "other players who mostly played center over time"...not overly relevant. I honestly don't understand the mix of players presented and what they represent here...

[meow]

Video of that Gudas/Coutoureyay collision:

https://twitter.com/JamieApody/status/9 ... 74081?s=19

Keep your head up, kid.

[Tico Rick]

1979 Tico Rick's Poll
Most Over-rated
Biggest Crybaby
Biggest Cheap Shot Artist

Seriously, not that Clarke was a bad player by any means, but the type of goonery allowed in the 70s, along with the kind of players that the Flyers surrounded Clarke with, allowed him to be as good as he was. But as I said earlier, there are at least a half dozen, and probably a dozen, players who were better two-way centers than Clarke. One could even argue that Lindros was a better two-way center than Clarke.

He was a multiple Hart winner because the Flyers surrounded him with goons...?

No one could argue 88 was a better two-way center than Clarke and still have hockey credibility...it's not remotely close. Add him to the list of, what can only be described as, "other players who mostly played center over time"...not overly relevant. I honestly don't understand the mix of players presented and what they represent here...

Well, it's all just opinion, but here's a guy who ranks Lindros ahead of Clarke:
https://fansided.com/2014/12/05/nhl-pow ... s-time/19/

And here's someone else's list of the top 10 centers of all time. No Bobby Clarke on the list:
https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck ... --nhl.html

And here's the NHL's own list of the top 100 players of all time. Seven centers are ranked ahead of Clarke:
https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck ... --nhl.html

And if you limit it to just players from the 70s, this guy ranks Clarke behind Esposito:
http://www.greatesthockeylegends.com/20 ... 1970s.html

Granted, all of these guys are just talking about centers in general, not best two-way centers, but I would argue that being responsible defensively comes with the position. Mario could be the best shut-down center in the game when he wanted to.

If you want to rank Clarke #1, that's fine. Personally, I just think it's kind of funny. He wouldn't have had nearly the numbers that he had with the Flyers - offensively or defensively - if he were on a team like, say, the Penguins of the seventies. I'd easily pick Mario, Beliveau, Makita, Messier, or Francis ahead of Clarke. Just my opinion.

[Dickie Dunn]

Video of that Gudas/Coutoureyay collision:

https://twitter.com/JamieApody/status/9 ... 74081?s=19

Keep your head up, kid.

I can really appreciate a coach who somehow designs a drill that has two guys going opposite directions catching passes in the same square foot of ice. What a dolt.

[meow]

Video of that Gudas/Coutoureyay collision:

https://twitter.com/JamieApody/status/9 ... 74081?s=19

Keep your head up, kid.

I can really appreciate a coach who somehow designs a drill that has two guys going opposite directions catching passes in the same square foot of ice. What a dolt.

It’s hard to tell what drill they are running, but it is not uncommon to have a flow drill like this where D are in the middle and forwards are using the ice outside the dots. Couturier has his head down and is totally unaware of what is going on around him.

[mikey]

1979 Tico Rick's Poll
Most Over-rated
Biggest Crybaby
Biggest Cheap Shot Artist

Seriously, not that Clarke was a bad player by any means, but the type of goonery allowed in the 70s, along with the kind of players that the Flyers surrounded Clarke with, allowed him to be as good as he was. But as I said earlier, there are at least a half dozen, and probably a dozen, players who were better two-way centers than Clarke. One could even argue that Lindros was a better two-way center than Clarke.

He was a multiple Hart winner because the Flyers surrounded him with goons...?

No one could argue 88 was a better two-way center than Clarke and still have hockey credibility...it's not remotely close. Add him to the list of, what can only be described as, "other players who mostly played center over time"...not overly relevant. I honestly don't understand the mix of players presented and what they represent here...

Well, it's all just opinion, but here's a guy who ranks Lindros ahead of Clarke:
https://fansided.com/2014/12/05/nhl-pow ... s-time/19/

And here's someone else's list of the top 10 centers of all time. No Bobby Clarke on the list:
https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck ... --nhl.html

And here's the NHL's own list of the top 100 players of all time. Seven centers are ranked ahead of Clarke:
https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck ... --nhl.html

And if you limit it to just players from the 70s, this guy ranks Clarke behind Esposito:
http://www.greatesthockeylegends.com/20 ... 1970s.html

Granted, all of these guys are just talking about centers in general, not best two-way centers, but I would argue that being responsible defensively comes with the position. Mario could be the best shut-down center in the game when he wanted to.

If you want to rank Clarke #1, that's fine. Personally, I just think it's kind of funny. He wouldn't have had nearly the numbers that he had with the Flyers - offensively or defensively - if he were on a team like, say, the Penguins of the seventies. I'd easily pick Mario, Beliveau, Makita, Messier, or Francis ahead of Clarke. Just my opinion.

lol'd at the first two sources. These guys clearly put no effort into it because there's no logical consistency. Those are horrific, and those lists are exactly why people don't know the history of the game.

The last list has two sixes, a seven and no nine...it's clearly an offensive-centric list...which is fine, because it's pretty consistent in that regard. If you don't want to appreciate defensive play, that's a fine list.

Mario picking and choosing the games he wanted to play is not an endorsement...

What is this team that Philadelphia had? It was all him with honorable mention to Parent. This is maybe the only team in history to win multiple Cups in an era without a #1 d-man because of Clarke. If he were on the Penguins, we would have been relevant...we were second-tier offensive team in the 70's...and it led to a lot of disappointments...that Flyers team wasn't nearly as stacked as the Habs or the Bruins (the rest of the Cups of the 70s...all of them). Clearly, everyone knew it was him and him almost alone...

His Hart Trophy voting finishes:
1972 - 8th
1973 - 1st
1974 - 4th
1975 - 1st
1976 - 1st
1977 - 2nd
1978 - 6th

All-Star Center:
1973 - 2nd
1974 - 2nd
1975 - 1st
1976 - 1st
1977 - 3rd

And it's not like I'm just making claims about defense...his offense is dynamite too...

5-Year Peak: 1973-1977
2nd in Points, 91% of first place Phil Esposito
19th in Goals, 69% of second place Rick Martin
1st in Assists, 115% of second place Phil Esposito

10-Year Peak: 1971-1980
4th in Points, 95% of second place Guy Lafleur
18th in Goals, 66% of second place Guy Lafleur
1st in Assists, 108% of second place Phil Esposito

People that actually did research on this, went back and looked at contemporary accounts and game film who aren't me...like the good folks who wrote "Ultimate Hockey" were pretty glowing of him too...granted, they aren't some 15 year old blogger who threw together some names of hockeydb, but it's still pretty good...

Ultimate Hockey's Best On-Ice Instincts of the 1970s
Ultimate Hockey's Smartest Player of the 1970s
Ultimate Hockey's Most Able Instigator of the 1970s
Ultimate Hockey's Dirtiest Player of the 1970s

He makes the Flyers go. He is on top of the puck all the time. He punishes his body terribly and goes all-out all the time.

If I wanted to fill an arena, I'd pick Perreault. If I wanted to win, I'd pick Clarke.

Bobby Clarke is still checking, winning faceoffs, killing penalties and scoring, besides setting such a furious pace that his fellow forwards don't dare let up.
....
Ended Phil Esposito's six year reign as all-star center... Rated hardest worker, best forechecker, best leader in league... Has changed from shy lad to team spokesman.

Rated best two-way worker in hockey... Symbolizes Flyers' hustle and aggressiveness... Respected for ability, desire, and leadership... Outstanding playmaker, checker and team man... Excells as penalty killer... Outstanding on faceoffs...Always skating, always working...

If we're talking best two-way centers in history, and we're naming guys like Lindros and Francis, we got real problems...Lindros didn't even do most of the heavy lifting for his line a lot of the time...

Beliveau, Clarke, Nighbor, Sakic, Messier, Trottier are good places to go...they epitomized two-way play...late Yzerman too I suppose...Henri Richard was excellent defensively, he'd be high on the list if we're emphasizing defensive play...

Naming Mario as a two-way center is like calling Coffey a defensive defenseman. Because sometimes he could play defense...? That's not good enough when you're talking about the best players in history in this regard...if we're really looking at defensive play, the list will likely not get long enough for Lemieux's name to ever come up in fact...of course, despite that he's the second best center in the history of the game...but it's not for his Selke game...

[dodint]

Mario was the king of burning circles at the blue line waiting for an outlet pass. Really curious seeing him brought up in this discussion.

[nocera]

**** Clarke and Lindros.

[mikey]

He's getting a lot of mileage (evidently a career's worth) for sliding into a 1-4 or whatever for half of the 1992 Patrick Division Semi-Final...

[Blue Canary]

**** Clarke and Lindros.

Exactly. The only king ruling Flyerland, whom we should care to hear about, is Sidney Crosby.

[Tico Rick]

Naming Mario as a two-way center is like calling Coffey a defensive defenseman. Because sometimes he could play defense...? That's not good enough when you're talking about the best players in history in this regard...if we're really looking at defensive play, the list will likely not get long enough for Lemieux's name to ever come up in fact...of course, despite that he's the second best center in the history of the game...but it's not for his Selke game...

He's getting a lot of mileage (evidently a career's worth) for sliding into a 1-4 or whatever for half of the 1992 Patrick Division Semi-Final...

You're making a specious argument. Asking Mario to play a defensive role is like FHCMJ having Crosby play a defense-first, checking game... Mario (unlike Coffey) could do it, but it just wouldn't make sense for him to do it, unless it were, say, the '92 Patrick Division Semi-Final. If you're talking about purely defensive centers, Clarke's name wouldn't be high up on the list either.

[Gaucho]

If you're talking about purely defensive centers, Clarke's name wouldn't be high up on the list either.

Oh, it would.

[mikey]

I have no idea what to even to say that...it simply didn't happen that way with all due respect...

Lemieux gets credit for being able to do something, allegedly...something we almost never saw reliably over the course of 20 years...

Meanwhile, Coffey "couldn't do it" allegedly...but yet, - and these games are very available - clearly manned up and cleaned up his defensive act in the playoffs...and they let Ruotsalainen run wild in some later years...so Coffey who couldn't: did. Clarke who is the pure embodiment of defensive play in the history of the game: wouldn't be high on the list. Yet, Lemieux, who "could of": gets the credit.

That's better than Bobby Clarke...who actually did it...and is rated as one of the best defensive centers in history by anyone that studies this stuff or knows how to tie skates...

One of us is on drugs, sir. And I demand that it's me before too long...

[beachboy76]

"could of"?

Gross.

[mikey]

Exactly...

[Blue Canary]

Points for using "specious."

Points for mentioning Reijo Ruotsalainen, one of the great hockey names of all time.

[Lelldorin]

I will let you continue the discussion without my limited hockey knowledge, but if anyone cares I am on team "Clarke was one of the greatest two-way centers in history".

3 Hart Trophies are difficult to overlook - especially if you aren't close to winning the Art Ross. That means that you clearly brought more stuff to the table.

1973 - First in points: Esposito 55-75-130, Second: Clarke 37-67-104
1975 - Orr 46-89-135, Fifth: Clarke 27-89-116
1976 - Lafleur 56-69-125, Second: Clarke 30-89-119

[NTP66]

In conclusion: **** Bob Clarke.

[Lemon Berry Lobster]

In conclusion: **** Bob Clarke.