The #Pens have acquired Ryan Reaves and a 2nd round pick for Oskar Sundqvist and the 31st overall pick.

Postby **columbia** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:16 am

It seems all the people who hate this move are nerds who have never played a physical sport

I don't know about that.
Whatever nerd.

Fight me

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:22 am

Postby **meow** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:22 am

Naked?

Postby **columbia** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:24 am

Naked?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Postby **Morkle** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:34 am

Maybe the real analytics (not shots+missed shots, which is not "advanced" in any way) show how effective he is and it's a pro-analytics move...proprietary information > public information when it comes to this kind of thing...

Shots+blocked shots was made public because it was no longer useful to teams...that had already become stale...

Long line of this: individual shot counts, ice time, plus/minus, efficiency/save pct. -- all "advanced" stats, proprietary at one time...released to the public after clubs moved on...

This is how I feel. I trust the GM of a team and it's supplemental data over some guy who does it as a hobby for the Pens blog. Not to count, those jabronies only look at stats, and don't look at locker room influence, etc.

Postby **NTP66** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:38 am

What's Reaves' Corsi?

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:43 am

I don't think the move means that the Pens disregard advanced analytics per se.

Last week they just hired Sam Ventura (CMU statistics professor, founder of war-on-ice.com) to a full time position (Director of Hockey Research) after he spent two years as a part-time consultant for the team. They're still all in on this stuff. They just use analytics that make sense.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:52 am

Maybe the real analytics (not shots+missed shots, which is not "advanced" in any way) show how effective he is and it's a pro-analytics move...proprietary information > public information when it comes to this kind of thing...

Shots+blocked shots was made public because it was no longer useful to teams...that had already become stale...

Long line of this: individual shot counts, ice time, plus/minus, efficiency/save pct. -- all "advanced" stats, proprietary at one time...released to the public after clubs moved on...
This is how I feel. I trust the GM of a team and it's supplemental data over some guy who does it as a hobby for the Pens blog. Not to count, those jabronies only look at stats, and don't look at locker room influence, etc.

Most of them don't even look at game play, let's not even get into off-ice stuff...

Postby **LITT** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:07 am

I just turned on the fan and they said "I don't think reeves is going to play with Crosby"

Was that ever an option??

Postby **Gaucho** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:12 am

I guess the thinking is that the enforcer can only effectively protect the star when being constantly at his side. Like Semenko, who was part of the lethal Semenko-Gretzky-Kurri line.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:13 am

I just turned on the fan and they said "I don't think reeves is going to play with Crosby"

Was that ever an option??

Guess they couldn't grind another day out of the manufactured Phil Kessel trade rumors.

Postby **count2infinity** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:14 am

Slappy is going to be so triggered by this conversation...

Postby **slappybrown** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:36 am

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:54 pm

I just turned on the fan and they said "I don't think reeves is going to play with Crosby"

Was that ever an option??

I actually gave this nonsense a listen while on my way to get lunch. It's like they decided to read the terrible opinions from r/penguins on air. He's not an enforcer. They shouldn't have traded for Evander Kane instead (Ron Cook's sources said the Penguins really wanted him). The Penguins didn't "prove" over the past two years that you win without this "type of player" because he's not the type of player dumbass Poni thinks he is. The dumbest thing Poni managed to say is that he's sure Niskanen would still cross check Crosby in the head even if it meant Reaves punching him in the face. Aside from the fact he's wrong, that's not what this is about. These unintelligent know nothings act like the Penguins play some utopian pacifist style of hockey and that's just not the case.

In the regular season the Penguins had four players average more than 2 hits per game with Horny and Kunitz both topping 200 hits. Even more specifically look at game five against the Predators. Kunitz with 3 hits, Wilson 3, Rowney 3, Malkin 5, Hornqvist 4, and Hagelin, Malkin, and Kunitz with fighting majors in the second half of the third period. Now instead of those guys being alone in the pursuit of punishing the other team's defensemen you add 230 pound Ryan Reaves to the mix. Even if you think that him punching you in the face won't change on ice habits (it will), the bigger impact comes from his forechecking abilities. Wearing down and punishing the other team's defensemen goes a long way to winning playoff series. A couple consecutive games of that big, speedy body sending people into the boards alters how fast guys get to the corners, alters their decision making, and has an appreciable impact on the game.

Toughness in all its forms is a vital part of winning in hockey. Playing through injury. Blocking shots. Taking hits to make plays. Forechecking. Standing up for your teammates. Ryan Reaves excels at toughness and is a pretty decent player to boot.

Postby **MR25** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:10 pm

I don't think citing pure hit numbers is a great way of saying players are playing physical, since a hit in Pittsburgh is different than a hit in Nashville is different than a hit in Columbus, etc., but I do agree with your overall point.

Postby **Lemon Berry Lobster** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:19 pm

I read some quotes from Reaves saying something along the lines of if guys on the other team go after Sid, Geno, etc. he's going to hit their star players and the guys hitting our guys can explain to their teammates why their getting ran over. Another along the lines of the defensemen are going to be looking over their shoulders for him coming in on the forecheck.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:32 pm

Right. Exactly what I said. Reaves gets it, he's in the pain business...

Postby **meow** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:44 pm

A good meat grinder will grind up stars, not rats

Postby **NTP66** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:50 pm

A good meat grinder will grind up stars, not rats

How about both?

Postby **Morkle** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:05 pm

I read some quotes from Reaves saying something along the lines of if guys on the other team go after Sid, Geno, etc. he's going to hit their star players and the guys hitting our guys can explain to their teammates why their getting ran over. Another along the lines of the defensemen are going to be looking over their shoulders for him coming in on the forecheck.

The second he said those comments, he understood what he was about. He's no Georges Laraque that guy, thinking he could all of a sudden dangle because he played on Sid's team.

Postby **FistOfCaufield** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:46 pm

When people ask me about this trade... I tell them I'm not sure Erik Karlsson makes it past game 4 with Reeves in the Penguins lineup playing the game I think he can play.

To me - that shows this kind of move is not about fighting, or "deterring" anything - but more about what he can do forechecking and hitting defensemen.

I'm sure if you ask the players - whether it's the forwards in regards to how they feel with him in the lineup.. or more importantly the Penguins defense in terms of what it's like to know there is a 230 lb guy skating full speed at you as you turn your back to chase a dump... that's all you need to know about this trade.

Postby **Lemon Berry Lobster** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:13 pm

https://twitter.com/Letang_58/status/878459507529007104
Glad to have @rreaves75 on our side !! #beast Welcome to the @penguins

Letang is excited

Postby **meow** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:05 pm

He is probably the scariest guy in the league.

Postby **Guinness** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:51 pm

I just turned on the fan and they said "I don't think reeves is going to play with Crosby"

Was that ever an option??
I actually gave this nonsense a listen while on my way to get lunch. It's like they decided to read the terrible opinions from r/penguins on air. He's not an enforcer. They shouldn't have traded for Evander Kane instead (Ron Cook's sources said the Penguins really wanted him). The Penguins didn't "prove" over the past two years that you win without this "type of player" because he's not the type of player dumbass Poni thinks he is. The dumbest thing Poni managed to say is that he's sure Niskanen would still cross check Crosby in the head even if it meant Reaves punching him in the face. Aside from the fact he's wrong, that's not what this is about. These unintelligent know nothings act like the Penguins play some utopian pacifist style of hockey and that's just not the case.

In the regular season the Penguins had four players average more than 2 hits per game with Horny and Kunitz both topping 200 hits. Even more specifically look at game five against the Predators. Kunitz with 3 hits, Wilson 3, Rowney 3, Malkin 5, Hornqvist 4, and Hagelin, Malkin, and Kunitz with fighting majors in the second half of the third period. Now instead of those guys being alone in the pursuit of punishing the other team's defensemen you add 230 pound Ryan Reaves to the mix. Even if you think that him punching you in the face won't change on ice habits (it will), the bigger impact comes from his forechecking abilities. Wearing down and punishing the other team's defensemen goes a long way to winning playoff series. A couple consecutive games of that big, speedy body sending people into the boards alters how fast guys get to the corners, alters their decision making, and has an appreciable impact on the game.

Toughness in all its forms is a vital part of winning in hockey. Playing through injury. Blocking shots. Taking hits to make plays. Forechecking. Standing up for your teammates. Ryan Reaves excels at toughness and is a pretty decent player to boot.

Also, the kind of game Reaves plays is exactly the kind of game that we played LAST year to win the Cup, i.e., brutal, relentless forecheck.

I usually don't mind Poni and enjoy listening to the show, but he is WAY off base on Reaves. At first I was disappointed in moving the pick in particular, but after thinking about it, and listening to folks who actually know, I'm on board with the trade.

As long as Reaves doesn't take bad penalties, it's all good in my book. Plus I'm rather excited to see him go to work on Dubinski, in particular.

Postby **Guinness** » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:54 pm

I read some quotes from Reaves saying something along the lines of if guys on the other team go after Sid, Geno, etc. he's going to hit their star players and the guys hitting our guys can explain to their teammates why their getting ran over. Another along the lines of the defensemen are going to be looking over their shoulders for him coming in on the forecheck.

F*** that. No if's about it. Reaves needs to be going after the rest of the league from the drop of the first puck of the season. Good, clean aggressive hits all night long... make them want to pull up.