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http://www.fifthavenueforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1567
Man I was high when I made that pick.He selectd Bylsma as his coach... I didn't remember that but saw it now =)My man, @meow.29. Muck, Grind & Repeat - Darius Kasparaitis, D
**** Ulf.No @willeyeam?My all-time list of favorites (not best), in order:
Lemieux
Crosby
Jagr
Malkin
Francis
Stevens
Coffey
MAF
Kasparaitis
Recchi
Kunitz
Murphy
Kessel
Straka
Letang
Mullen
Kovalev
Nedved
Markus Naslund was a way, way better player than Marleau, with a way, way better career. There's a pretty fair claim that Markus Naslund was the best forward in the league after the Jagr trade until the big sleep...that's not nothing. Patrick Marleau was never considered a top 10 forward in the league for any stretch of time...was he ever considered a top 25 player in the league for any noteworthy stretch of time...? Top 25 forward? Maybe that one.Prevent Marleau from being born and, outside of San Jose, nothing changes anywhere. It’s not just that he never won. He had no iconic moments or cultural impact. Not sure he ever even changed his facial expression throughout his career.I think the intent (as it is at least 95% of the time) it's their career value as a Penguin...otherwise, I'm gonna get a lot of mileage out of Andy Bathgate...
Incidentally, I wonder if Marleau is even a top 500 player of all time...Morrow isn't...
500 is a big number, so I don’t know if he’s part of it or not. But history will consider him a very forgettable guy. Is he like slightly below the Naslund tier, maybe?
**** Ulf.No @willeyeam?My all-time list of favorites (not best), in order:
Lemieux
Crosby
Jagr
Malkin
Francis
Stevens
Coffey
MAF
Kasparaitis
Recchi
Kunitz
Murphy
Kessel
Straka
Letang
Mullen
Kovalev
Nedved
would this put a guy like sundin at 300-ish?Markus Naslund was a way, way better player than Marleau, with a way, way better career. There's a pretty fair claim that Markus Naslund was the best forward in the league after the Jagr trade until the big sleep...that's not nothing. Patrick Marleau was never considered a top 10 forward in the league for any stretch of time...was he ever considered a top 25 player in the league for any noteworthy stretch of time...? Top 25 forward? Maybe that one.Prevent Marleau from being born and, outside of San Jose, nothing changes anywhere. It’s not just that he never won. He had no iconic moments or cultural impact. Not sure he ever even changed his facial expression throughout his career.I think the intent (as it is at least 95% of the time) it's their career value as a Penguin...otherwise, I'm gonna get a lot of mileage out of Andy Bathgate...
Incidentally, I wonder if Marleau is even a top 500 player of all time...Morrow isn't...
500 is a big number, so I don’t know if he’s part of it or not. But history will consider him a very forgettable guy. Is he like slightly below the Naslund tier, maybe?
It's really difficult when you're so far out in the wilderness, right? 500 is a big number. I'd think you could start to consider Naslund once you blow through the first 200 names. I don't know how quickly after 200, but just thinking broadly, I think I could easily do another lap before even considering Marleau...
Just to create sort of road map, let's assume that for every player I name, there are 25 names that go between them...
Let's say Markus Naslund is 250 for ease.
Was Patrick Marleau better than Ziggy Palffy? No.
Better than Nicklas Backstrom? No.
John Tavares? No.
Kristopher Letang? No.
Phil Kessel? No.
Marian Gaborik? No.
That's 400.
Rick Nash? Maybe.
Eric Staal? Maybe.
So I guess I'd start to consider him after 400...but it's really rough all the way out here...
If we're talking personal favorites, Matt Cullen may be in my Top 20.
Eager was a first-class shthead. I remember his sucker punch on Colby Armstrong too (when Colby was with the Leafs).I often think about this fight. I’ve seen thousands and thousands of hockey fights. This is the only one where a dude got his tarp ripped off, but by some miracle of God kept his lid on.And pounding Ben Eager
It’s amazing that someone with his career numbers is essentially a 40 degree day.Prevent Marleau from being born and, outside of San Jose, nothing changes anywhere. It’s not just that he never won. He had no iconic moments or cultural impact. Not sure he ever even changed his facial expression throughout his career.I think the intent (as it is at least 95% of the time) it's their career value as a Penguin...otherwise, I'm gonna get a lot of mileage out of Andy Bathgate...
Incidentally, I wonder if Marleau is even a top 500 player of all time...Morrow isn't...
500 is a big number, so I don’t know if he’s part of it or not. But history will consider him a very forgettable guy. Is he like slightly below the Naslund tier, maybe?
That's not bad all things considered...I have more time for Sundin than most, and I think he deserves a lot of mileage for his international record. If Naslund is 250, I'd probably have Sundin ahead of him, closer to the 200 side than the 300 side. I can make a case against Naslund easier than I can make one against Sundin. You can take a bite out of Naslund's case (reasonably, of course) by attributing more credit to Todd Bertuzzi for the West Coast Express. There also isn't much staying power after the lockout...he just wasn't the same without the WCE churning along. Now, had Bertuzzi not been driven mad by Steve Moore, it may have really shifted the career retrospective on Naslund because that line would be able to combine forces with the emerging Sedin-Sedin-[Friend] line...but Bert killed a man, and killed any shot of Markus Naslund carving out a weak HOF case in the process...would this put a guy like sundin at 300-ish?Markus Naslund was a way, way better player than Marleau, with a way, way better career. There's a pretty fair claim that Markus Naslund was the best forward in the league after the Jagr trade until the big sleep...that's not nothing. Patrick Marleau was never considered a top 10 forward in the league for any stretch of time...was he ever considered a top 25 player in the league for any noteworthy stretch of time...? Top 25 forward? Maybe that one.Prevent Marleau from being born and, outside of San Jose, nothing changes anywhere. It’s not just that he never won. He had no iconic moments or cultural impact. Not sure he ever even changed his facial expression throughout his career.I think the intent (as it is at least 95% of the time) it's their career value as a Penguin...otherwise, I'm gonna get a lot of mileage out of Andy Bathgate...
Incidentally, I wonder if Marleau is even a top 500 player of all time...Morrow isn't...
500 is a big number, so I don’t know if he’s part of it or not. But history will consider him a very forgettable guy. Is he like slightly below the Naslund tier, maybe?
It's really difficult when you're so far out in the wilderness, right? 500 is a big number. I'd think you could start to consider Naslund once you blow through the first 200 names. I don't know how quickly after 200, but just thinking broadly, I think I could easily do another lap before even considering Marleau...
Just to create sort of road map, let's assume that for every player I name, there are 25 names that go between them...
Let's say Markus Naslund is 250 for ease.
Was Patrick Marleau better than Ziggy Palffy? No.
Better than Nicklas Backstrom? No.
John Tavares? No.
Kristopher Letang? No.
Phil Kessel? No.
Marian Gaborik? No.
That's 400.
Rick Nash? Maybe.
Eric Staal? Maybe.
So I guess I'd start to consider him after 400...but it's really rough all the way out here...
I like the on tv vs in person topic. Rick Nash was like that for me. On TV for me he was meh, yeah big guy, good shot, whatevs. Then I went to a game in Columbus and anytime he was on the ice the Pens either couldn’t contain him or it took 2 guys to force the puck off him. He was HUGE and his physicality was very impressive when on the boards and protecting the puck.Ooh, yeah, sorry lelldorin, I didn't even see your post before I made mine...yeah, I'd say that's very fair. Sundin probably represents the biggest gap between "how he looks on TV" vs "how he looks in person" for me in terms of his skill and overall ability...he had very little help in Toronto (thus, he was always around for national team duty)...
I mean, let's be honest, even for you as a Swede, would either of us know who Jonas Hoglund was if not for Mats Sundin...? It's a blessing and a curse really haha
Nah, but he has quite many games for Sweden and now that I look him up, he actually played 545 games in the NHL :OOoh, yeah, sorry lelldorin, I didn't even see your post before I made mine...yeah, I'd say that's very fair. Sundin probably represents the biggest gap between "how he looks on TV" vs "how he looks in person" for me in terms of his skill and overall ability...he had very little help in Toronto (thus, he was always around for national team duty)...
I mean, let's be honest, even for you as a Swede, would either of us know who Jonas Hoglund was if not for Mats Sundin...? It's a blessing and a curse really haha
Love lip reading Laraque.And pounding Ben Eager
25 year old Gary Roberts comes with a litany of current future injury problems.