mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby meow » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:39 am

29. Muck, Grind & Repeat - Darius Kasparaitis, D
My man, @meow.
He selectd Bylsma as his coach... I didn't remember that but saw it now =)
Man I was high when I made that pick.

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby meow » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:40 am

New page. Again.

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby meow » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:40 am

My all-time list of favorites (not best), in order:

Lemieux
Crosby
Jagr
Malkin
Francis
Stevens
Coffey
MAF
Kasparaitis
Recchi
Kunitz
Murphy
Kessel
Straka
Letang
Mullen
Kovalev
Nedved
No @willeyeam?
**** Ulf.

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Postby mikey » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:42 am

I think the intent (as it is at least 95% of the time) it's their career value as a Penguin...otherwise, I'm gonna get a lot of mileage out of Andy Bathgate...

Incidentally, I wonder if Marleau is even a top 500 player of all time...Morrow isn't...
Prevent Marleau from being born and, outside of San Jose, nothing changes anywhere. It’s not just that he never won. He had no iconic moments or cultural impact. Not sure he ever even changed his facial expression throughout his career.

500 is a big number, so I don’t know if he’s part of it or not. But history will consider him a very forgettable guy. Is he like slightly below the Naslund tier, maybe?
Markus Naslund was a way, way better player than Marleau, with a way, way better career. There's a pretty fair claim that Markus Naslund was the best forward in the league after the Jagr trade until the big sleep...that's not nothing. Patrick Marleau was never considered a top 10 forward in the league for any stretch of time...was he ever considered a top 25 player in the league for any noteworthy stretch of time...? Top 25 forward? Maybe that one.

It's really difficult when you're so far out in the wilderness, right? 500 is a big number. I'd think you could start to consider Naslund once you blow through the first 200 names. I don't know how quickly after 200, but just thinking broadly, I think I could easily do another lap before even considering Marleau...

Just to create sort of road map, let's assume that for every player I name, there are 25 names that go between them...

Let's say Markus Naslund is 250 for ease.
Was Patrick Marleau better than Ziggy Palffy? No.
Better than Nicklas Backstrom? No.
John Tavares? No.
Kristopher Letang? No.
Phil Kessel? No.
Marian Gaborik? No.

That's 400.

Rick Nash? Maybe.
Eric Staal? Maybe.

So I guess I'd start to consider him after 400...but it's really rough all the way out here...

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Postby willeyeam » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:53 am

My all-time list of favorites (not best), in order:

Lemieux
Crosby
Jagr
Malkin
Francis
Stevens
Coffey
MAF
Kasparaitis
Recchi
Kunitz
Murphy
Kessel
Straka
Letang
Mullen
Kovalev
Nedved
No @willeyeam?
**** Ulf.
Image

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Postby shmenguin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:29 pm

I think the intent (as it is at least 95% of the time) it's their career value as a Penguin...otherwise, I'm gonna get a lot of mileage out of Andy Bathgate...

Incidentally, I wonder if Marleau is even a top 500 player of all time...Morrow isn't...
Prevent Marleau from being born and, outside of San Jose, nothing changes anywhere. It’s not just that he never won. He had no iconic moments or cultural impact. Not sure he ever even changed his facial expression throughout his career.

500 is a big number, so I don’t know if he’s part of it or not. But history will consider him a very forgettable guy. Is he like slightly below the Naslund tier, maybe?
Markus Naslund was a way, way better player than Marleau, with a way, way better career. There's a pretty fair claim that Markus Naslund was the best forward in the league after the Jagr trade until the big sleep...that's not nothing. Patrick Marleau was never considered a top 10 forward in the league for any stretch of time...was he ever considered a top 25 player in the league for any noteworthy stretch of time...? Top 25 forward? Maybe that one.

It's really difficult when you're so far out in the wilderness, right? 500 is a big number. I'd think you could start to consider Naslund once you blow through the first 200 names. I don't know how quickly after 200, but just thinking broadly, I think I could easily do another lap before even considering Marleau...

Just to create sort of road map, let's assume that for every player I name, there are 25 names that go between them...

Let's say Markus Naslund is 250 for ease.
Was Patrick Marleau better than Ziggy Palffy? No.
Better than Nicklas Backstrom? No.
John Tavares? No.
Kristopher Letang? No.
Phil Kessel? No.
Marian Gaborik? No.

That's 400.

Rick Nash? Maybe.
Eric Staal? Maybe.

So I guess I'd start to consider him after 400...but it's really rough all the way out here...
would this put a guy like sundin at 300-ish?

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Postby Lelldorin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:41 pm

The average Swede considers Sundin to be better than Näslund. I rate them quite equally but with an edge for Näslund

Edit: Forsberg, Lidström and Sundin where considered the big three during the late 90s, early 2000s

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Postby Dickie Dunn » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:02 pm

If we're talking personal favorites, Matt Cullen may be in my Top 20.
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Postby shafnutz05 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:03 pm

And pounding Ben Eager

I often think about this fight. I’ve seen thousands and thousands of hockey fights. This is the only one where a dude got his tarp ripped off, but by some miracle of God kept his lid on.
Eager was a first-class shthead. I remember his sucker punch on Colby Armstrong too (when Colby was with the Leafs).

What's great is that after Eager left Philly, he scored the GWG in Game 2 of the SCF against them with Chicago.

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Postby Dickie Dunn » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:05 pm

I think the intent (as it is at least 95% of the time) it's their career value as a Penguin...otherwise, I'm gonna get a lot of mileage out of Andy Bathgate...

Incidentally, I wonder if Marleau is even a top 500 player of all time...Morrow isn't...
Prevent Marleau from being born and, outside of San Jose, nothing changes anywhere. It’s not just that he never won. He had no iconic moments or cultural impact. Not sure he ever even changed his facial expression throughout his career.

500 is a big number, so I don’t know if he’s part of it or not. But history will consider him a very forgettable guy. Is he like slightly below the Naslund tier, maybe?
It’s amazing that someone with his career numbers is essentially a 40 degree day.

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Postby mikey » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:11 pm

I think the intent (as it is at least 95% of the time) it's their career value as a Penguin...otherwise, I'm gonna get a lot of mileage out of Andy Bathgate...

Incidentally, I wonder if Marleau is even a top 500 player of all time...Morrow isn't...
Prevent Marleau from being born and, outside of San Jose, nothing changes anywhere. It’s not just that he never won. He had no iconic moments or cultural impact. Not sure he ever even changed his facial expression throughout his career.

500 is a big number, so I don’t know if he’s part of it or not. But history will consider him a very forgettable guy. Is he like slightly below the Naslund tier, maybe?
Markus Naslund was a way, way better player than Marleau, with a way, way better career. There's a pretty fair claim that Markus Naslund was the best forward in the league after the Jagr trade until the big sleep...that's not nothing. Patrick Marleau was never considered a top 10 forward in the league for any stretch of time...was he ever considered a top 25 player in the league for any noteworthy stretch of time...? Top 25 forward? Maybe that one.

It's really difficult when you're so far out in the wilderness, right? 500 is a big number. I'd think you could start to consider Naslund once you blow through the first 200 names. I don't know how quickly after 200, but just thinking broadly, I think I could easily do another lap before even considering Marleau...

Just to create sort of road map, let's assume that for every player I name, there are 25 names that go between them...

Let's say Markus Naslund is 250 for ease.
Was Patrick Marleau better than Ziggy Palffy? No.
Better than Nicklas Backstrom? No.
John Tavares? No.
Kristopher Letang? No.
Phil Kessel? No.
Marian Gaborik? No.

That's 400.

Rick Nash? Maybe.
Eric Staal? Maybe.

So I guess I'd start to consider him after 400...but it's really rough all the way out here...
would this put a guy like sundin at 300-ish?
That's not bad all things considered...I have more time for Sundin than most, and I think he deserves a lot of mileage for his international record. If Naslund is 250, I'd probably have Sundin ahead of him, closer to the 200 side than the 300 side. I can make a case against Naslund easier than I can make one against Sundin. You can take a bite out of Naslund's case (reasonably, of course) by attributing more credit to Todd Bertuzzi for the West Coast Express. There also isn't much staying power after the lockout...he just wasn't the same without the WCE churning along. Now, had Bertuzzi not been driven mad by Steve Moore, it may have really shifted the career retrospective on Naslund because that line would be able to combine forces with the emerging Sedin-Sedin-[Friend] line...but Bert killed a man, and killed any shot of Markus Naslund carving out a weak HOF case in the process...

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Postby shmenguin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:26 pm

International record...I hope that’s weighted pretty low in your rubric.

I understand the handful of Olympics where there was a proper framework in place to collect good data. But the WC is a mess, and has too many variables and fishy competitiveness applied to it to use it as a resume builder.

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Postby mikey » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:51 pm

Yeah, naturally, you can't put too much weight in the WCs, best on best tournaments deserve Stanley Cup Playoff type credit though...

At the same time that I say I can't put too much on weight on the WCs, I also won't discredit him for it because it's just so good...

1991 WC gold medal, most goals, most points
1991 Canada Cup All Star Team
1992 WC gold medal, best forward
1994 WC bronze, most assists, most points
1996 World Cup All Star Team
1998 WC gold medal, All Star Team
2002 Olympic All Star, most points
2003 WC silver medal, best forward, MVP
2006 Olympic gold medal

Best on best: 30 GP 18 g, 20 a, 38 pts, +11
World Champs: 49 GP 25 g, 31 a, 56 pts, +36

##

Naslund is so far below him...

Best on best: 9 GP 2 g, 4 a, 6 pts, +1
World Champs: 22 GP 8 g, 7 a , 15 pts, +8

And it's not even just versus Naslund, it's an all-time international record...he's one of the greatest international players in the history of the game, and he's the best international player in Sweden's long history...he gets some credit for that...in fact, the HHOF agreed. As Sundin is in, and Naslund never will be...

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Postby Lelldorin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:10 pm

Yeah, as I wrote - he is considered one of Sweden's best players in history. He has comitted to the national team on multiple occasions and usually played very well.
Pure speculation: Perhaps he put in a little extra effort in international tournaments since he actually had a team around him...

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Postby mikey » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:16 pm

Ooh, yeah, sorry lelldorin, I didn't even see your post before I made mine...yeah, I'd say that's very fair. Sundin probably represents the biggest gap between "how he looks on TV" vs "how he looks in person" for me in terms of his skill and overall ability...he had very little help in Toronto (thus, he was always around for national team duty)...

I mean, let's be honest, even for you as a Swede, would either of us know who Jonas Hoglund was if not for Mats Sundin...? It's a blessing and a curse really haha

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Postby Pavel Bure » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:36 pm

Ooh, yeah, sorry lelldorin, I didn't even see your post before I made mine...yeah, I'd say that's very fair. Sundin probably represents the biggest gap between "how he looks on TV" vs "how he looks in person" for me in terms of his skill and overall ability...he had very little help in Toronto (thus, he was always around for national team duty)...

I mean, let's be honest, even for you as a Swede, would either of us know who Jonas Hoglund was if not for Mats Sundin...? It's a blessing and a curse really haha
I like the on tv vs in person topic. Rick Nash was like that for me. On TV for me he was meh, yeah big guy, good shot, whatevs. Then I went to a game in Columbus and anytime he was on the ice the Pens either couldn’t contain him or it took 2 guys to force the puck off him. He was HUGE and his physicality was very impressive when on the boards and protecting the puck.

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Postby mikey » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:48 pm

Nasher is a good example of that for sure...

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Postby meow » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:09 pm

Joe Thorton was that guy for me. I mean, he looks/looked great on tv, but in person was a whole different level. I saw him in Pittsburgh when he was Boston and had a cage on for some injury. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a NHL game in person where one player was just an absolute presence on the rink. It was wild.

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Postby Lelldorin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:20 pm

Ooh, yeah, sorry lelldorin, I didn't even see your post before I made mine...yeah, I'd say that's very fair. Sundin probably represents the biggest gap between "how he looks on TV" vs "how he looks in person" for me in terms of his skill and overall ability...he had very little help in Toronto (thus, he was always around for national team duty)...

I mean, let's be honest, even for you as a Swede, would either of us know who Jonas Hoglund was if not for Mats Sundin...? It's a blessing and a curse really haha
Nah, but he has quite many games for Sweden and now that I look him up, he actually played 545 games in the NHL :O

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Postby King Colby » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:32 pm

And pounding Ben Eager

Love lip reading Laraque.

"You got fkn killed by Gary roberts. He doesn't even fight"

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Postby Jim » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:22 am

Can someone clone maybe like three 25 year old Gary Roberts and sign them to the Penguins?

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Postby Dickie Dunn » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:29 am

25 year old Gary Roberts comes with a litany of current future injury problems.

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Postby Jim » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:48 am

25 year old Gary Roberts comes with a litany of current future injury problems.

With 3 of them maybe one of the three will be available at any specific time.

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Postby King Colby » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:07 pm

At this point I'd take three 40 yr old robertses

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Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:18 pm

I'd take a 54 year old Roberts

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