mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

[mikey]

Let's lay out a foundation, not super specific, but let's lay out a reasonable plan...

I'd like at least 5 MVPs, I'd like him to be the unquestioned best player (or in a 1, 2 scenario with another supernova, like Crosby) in the league for the majority of his 12-15+ year career (assuming league quality remains fairly static)...I'd like a ton of top 3 scoring finishes...I'd like real strong playoff success/best-on-best international success (if he's permitted), even if his team can't help him (as Gretzky doesn't win after leaving Edmonton himself, which is right when the league really starts to tighten up)...

I don't need 1000 more points than anyone else. I don't need doubling up #2 in points in a season. I don't need 61 records or whatever. I don't need even four Cups.

I don't count Gretzky's 1980 to, say, 1986 at full face value...I don't. Because I know the quality of the league. So I don't need to use Gretzky's exact hand to trace to make a suitable turkey...like you said, if we go, "ok, beat 3000" no one ever has a chance (barring rule changes)...that's not realistic. The game in 2021 is better than the game in 1981, I know that. The game in 1961 is better than the game in 1981, I know that too. So you make these adjustments and you work your way...a real good comparison between Gretzky and McDavid should take weeks of work alone, not 20 minutes...

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

do you require any cups? Is 1 the minimum?

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

also y’all are tearing into Gretzky. Both of you guys want Gretzky dethroned

[mikey]

We are not. Well, I ain't, at least...

I don't *require" them...but man, it'd be nice, eh...? A few would be nice...

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

no way. You cannot be the GOAT if you never lift the Cup

[shmenguin]

do you require any cups? Is 1 the minimum?

Quiet, you

...and it’s a good faith request, mikey, not a 20 minute gotcha errand. But that’s informative. Thanks.

[shmenguin]

And yeah, Lemieux was better, so it would be nice for that to be canonical.

But I really want a better framework. Mikey’s secret society has a better system than Reddit at least.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

I know mikey gets a masturbatory joy out of taking a shot at me/ESPN when titles are brought up but that entirely misses the point of sport. When these players play, they’re not trying to score more points or win the Hart trophy, they’re trying to win a cup


It’s like nerds in basements trying to plot Penny stocks. Athletes don’t view it like that. It’s not a formula, it’s a feeling

[shmenguin]

You can’t will yourself to a cup. Talent doesn’t guarantee a cup. Lemieux was a couple games against the caps away from having zero, yes? Certainly could have turned out differently through no fault of his own.

It’s not a meaningful metric.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

I’d be curious who players think is the GOAT. I think they’d put Mario closer to Gretzky than most people

[Gaucho]

I doubt that.

[mikey]

Championships have value. Great players tend to win. Homeboy puts way too much emphasis on it for this context...

Look what has to happen to your list here for instance...it's gonna have to be really, really Montreal heavy at the top...were all of the 50s and 60s Habs the best of all time...? Is Manning a worse QB because Vanderjagt missed against Pittsburgh? Brady is better because of a bungled rule and Vinatieri made his? Hell, is Manning better because Von Miller destroyed an entire offense one day...? It's such a small data point. It's data, it counts, it has value...I can't find a way to assign it such a disproportionate value as you do...it creates such wonky results (Eli vs Marino, classically...they are about 100 QBs apart in reality...Tony Kornheiser probably thinks the gap is about 6, it's rubbish)...

[meow]

I’ve had enough of this rubbish. Mario is the GOAT. meow has spoken

[dodint]

Why is TK taking shrapnel here?

[NTP66]

I’ve had enough of this rubbish. Mario is the GOAT. meow has spoken

[mikey]

Why is TK taking shrapnel here?

Nothing personal, just an ESPN representative...

[Jim]

Write in vote for Tyler Wright?

[Lelldorin]

I think I have Crosby close to place 5 if he does not get neck issues AND wins the Art Ross (and perhaps 1-3 Harts) 2010-2013. He was on pace for it and was the best before and after that. However, as I said before, playing fewer games during those seasons might have benefitted his stats/game.

Now, I don't think I have him top 10, even though he has been my favourite player since Lemieux. He is injured during his prime, so except the playoffs he is not much better than Ovechkin for me His stellar playoff performance elevates him, but I am not sure I can put him ahead of Bourque or Jagr, for example.

[NTP66]

He’s closer to 5 than he is 10 for me. If I can overlook Lemieux’s health issues, I sure as hell can Crosby’s.

[Gaucho]

ban Lelldorin imo

[shmenguin]

I understand the following is based on nothing and could be wrong...

Bourque is like Karlsson to me. Never worried about playing against them, despite the stats and how great everyone has proclaimed them to be. Just never translated to W’s for me.

[dodint]

Yes.

[Gaucho]

That's how I feel about every defenseman except Bobby Orr.

[AuthorTony]

Greatest players to play for the Penguins:

1. Lemieux
2. Jagr
3. Crosby

That's a given, right?

[nocera]

Greatest players to play for the Penguins:

1. Lemieux
2. Jagr
3. Crosby

That's a given, right?

1. Lemieux
2. Crosby
3. Jagr