mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:41 pm

how long until we get a pigeon logo jersey?

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby nocera » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:44 pm

I think alts have to be used for at least 3 years so definitely not before that. With FSG in charge then, it’s possible.

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Postby faftorial » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:52 pm

Isn't this the road jersey from that era?
93-97
Right, but they are wearing it at home games now.

The tradition in baseball is team name at home, city name on the road.

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Postby nocera » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:55 pm

Isn't this the road jersey from that era?
93-97
Right, but they are wearing it at home games now.

The tradition in baseball is team name at home, city name on the road.
Oh right I see what you’re saying. That’s true. Blame the dumb dark jerseys at home thing.

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Postby The U » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:21 am

This will come off as negative but I see this group as an average team that will struggle to make the playoffs. It has me thinking about the upcoming rebuild/retool.

I don’t see how this team can re-build without selling off assets at some point. How can we get more youth, more potential, more draft picks, more prospects without selling at some point? Even staying status quo (no more adding at deadline) and holding on to our own picks and prospects is not going to be good enough.

Is it crazy to be thinking that the only way this team’s outlook for the future improves is if they miss the playoffs at some point and sell at the deadline? Is this the only way to significantly build organizational depth and re-tool/re-stock? We have some expiring contracts to sell. We have players other teams would want for a playoff run. We can’t let good players leave in the offseason and get zero return for them. I just don’t see any other way to accumulate picks/prospects.

I think the worst case scenario for this team this year is to be average. They need to be very good or they need to be clearly outside of the playoff picture by deadline day.

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Postby mikey » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:29 am

I don't think this team is anything special...but I don't necessarily need to map out the rebuild for a team in a playoff spot that just lost to the league's best team, with the league's best player...

Meanwhile, Crosby has played a handful of games and Malkin has played zero. The fact that we're even off the mat right now is actual a testament to either our coaching or our roster...but it's not neither...

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Postby NTP66 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:30 am

I only saw the highlights, but it looked like basically all of their chances came on odd-man rushes.

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Postby mikey » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:35 am

Yeah...we out played them. The shots were like 25 to 8 at one point or something. But it was all just their skill beating our skill with odd man breaks, sudden change offense, etc.

We generally weren't hemmed in for extended periods of time or anything...

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Postby King Colby » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:36 am

Spoiler alert - mcdavid is unreal. The way he froze up jarry on hymans 2nd and 3rd (disallowed) goals was slick.

But we were sloppy in transition and not smart with the puck. If we clean those things up we handle Edmonton easily. Draisaitl was invisible and they barely generated any zone time whatsoever even with mcdavid on the ice.

That's a good matchup for a healthy penguins team, similar to the Leafs IMO.

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Postby MR25 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:38 am

Yeah but the Penguins don't hit enough and aren't entertaining enough so you gotta just blow everything up, apparently.

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Postby King Colby » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:38 am

I don't like that oilers team's chances at a meaningful playoff run. They're built on fast breaks and their powerplay, both of which essentially don't exist in the playoffs...

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Postby mikey » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:09 pm

If they're getting the hooking calls they got last night, they'll have power plays in the playoffs for a change...

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Postby nocera » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:13 pm

If they're getting the hooking calls they got last night, they'll have power plays in the playoffs for a change...
spoilers: they won't.

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Postby King Colby » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:42 pm

Meanwhile, Calgary will be the new Islanders. They're probably two top-9 forwards away from having a legitimate shot at a hoist

Also they probably can't have a Zadorov-Gudbranson pair

Although Tampa won with schenn and Bogosian I guess... of course Hedman was there to play 57 minutes a game though

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Postby Gaucho » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:10 pm

The Oilers are roughly 6 players away from beng serious contenders. Or maybe they're like the 09 Penguins, I don't know.

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Postby The U » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:29 pm

Yeah but the Penguins don't hit enough and aren't entertaining enough so you gotta just blow everything up, apparently.
This is the entertainment business, so don’t discount the importance of having a product people want to watch. Soon the stars will be gone or aged out and we’ll be left with 12 Craig Adams clones at forward and 6 Ruhwedel’s on defense if we don’t plan properly.

We’ve outshot teams this season. We have won the time of possession battle at times too. This just doesn’t make me feel all that great because my eyeballs remain unconvinced that these things mean an offensive turnaround is coming. So much of our zone time is on the perimeter. So many of our shots are low danger or from bad angles. Our love affair with the cross ice hope passes that are intercepted routinely. The constant move of racing into the offensive zone and then pulling up right after the blue line instead of taking it deeper or towards the net. All concerning for me.

In regards to hitting/physical play….that’s an important part of the sport. Sorry. This past week we’ve seen numerous hits/body eliminations lead to goals against. If you don’t think physical play is important, you have been watching too many penguins games. Watch some of the other top teams that have a more diverse roster and see how skill and physicality can blend together for maximum results.

Also, dare I say, hits and fights… emotion, dislike, and “characters” are entertaining. I loved hockey in the 90s and 2000s. Really was boring and lame watching Lemieux and Jagr do their thing because as soon as Ulf came onto the ice I was too disgusted to enjoy the game anymore. Loved Straka, Letang, and Kovalev but as soon as Kasparaitis came on for a shift I had to shield my eyes. And who didn’t find entertainment value in Oliwa, McKenna, Leroux, Asham, Ruutu, Barnaby, Niemenen, Cooke, Laraque, etc? I miss characters. Hockey at its most entertaining (IMO) is when the game contains all of its key ingredients…..emotion, skill, speed, physicality, etc. Most Penguins games are lacking lately due to the league changing and roster construction.

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Postby MR25 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:50 pm

You have a fetish for physicality and thats fine, I don't kink shame, but it's tiresome that you keep touting it as the only way the Pens will win games. You did this back in the playoffs last year, too. If your team has the puck more than the opponent, they aren't going to appear as physical because your team doesn't need to hit people when you have the puck (shocking, I know).

Your personal "entertainment" doesn't equate to Ws. There are losing teams that are highly "entertaining" because they're so **** bad (Columbus earlier this decade and Buffalo immediately come to mind). If you want constant entertainment, you should probably watch wrestling. Hockey is a long season with ebbs and flows.

Their shooting percentage is well below average, especially down to the individual level. Some progression to the mean is due. We saw a small bit of that in the 5 game win streak they just came off of. Hell, look at Guentzel. He had a ton of shots early in the year but they weren't going in for him. Did he really change how he played? No. He kept at the process and now he's riding, what, an 11 game point streak?

Basically, I think a lot of what you're saying is overblown, especially in regards to "mah physicality and entertainment". Could the Pens be playing better? Maybe, if by "playing better" you mean getting some puck luck for their shooting percentage, but the way they are playing is successful in the long run based on how the roster is currently shaped (outside of giving up odd-mans). As I said, statistically the shooting percentage more or less has nowhere to go but up, and the Pens have done a pretty good job both possessing the puck and getting scoring chances (see: 5 game W streak they just went on).

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Postby MR25 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:54 pm

And I'm not saying everything is sunshine and roses, but reading your posts over the past two games about just blowing it all up (again, after going on a 5 game W streak) just makes me more confused than anything.

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Postby Gaucho » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:08 pm

yes

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Postby mikey » Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:25 pm

Yeah but the Penguins don't hit enough and aren't entertaining enough so you gotta just blow everything up, apparently.
We’ve outshot teams this season. We have won the time of possession battle at times too. This just doesn’t make me feel all that great because my eyeballs remain unconvinced that these things mean an offensive turnaround is coming. So much of our zone time is on the perimeter. So many of our shots are low danger or from bad angles. Our love affair with the cross ice hope passes that are intercepted routinely. The constant move of racing into the offensive zone and then pulling up right after the blue line instead of taking it deeper or towards the net. All concerning for me.
These are kind of at odds with each other. As someone that coaches Soviet-style, organic rush offense these days, you're asking for two opposing things. It's a tenet of rush offense that generates interior, high quality scoring chances that the puck must cross the net line (sometimes referred to as the "royal road") before a shot is attempted. Similarly, the pull up at the blueline is to create speed differential on the entry to allow for more space or a lateral passing lane to accomplish the previous point.

Let's take a look at a convenient example...the first Edmonton goal last night.



On the sudden change exit, you have one key component - a man ahead of the puck. As EDM18 exits outside the left wing as a RHS, he is way out in the gutter. Any d-man worth his salt can keep that play in the gutter very easily. But EDM44 is ahead of the puck and it keeps the defense from coming up and making a play here. If EDM18 is the lead player with the puck, my d-men are taught to skate towards that player, maintain the dots, and get him to turn his toes slightly to break his stride (less speed to absorb) or, even better, dislodge the puck...get it out of the attacker's hands.

Again though, EDM44 is ahead of the play and in the center lane, which really ties down PIT58. The trouble since 1930 is that that speed differential for the entry is broken by the potential of being offside. PIT58 takes a stab at the entry to try to force this play offside (this is a good play, as the blueline is an extra half of a defenseman, but he doesn't come back with the play...so you either use him there, or you lost the advantage). EDM18 gets the line and pulls up. Immediately EDM44 kicks back into gear as F2 (a lot of old school folks think it's F3 that does this...I have changed my philosophy that F2 is actually a better lead dog/space maker for rush offense).

Watch EDM44 - the way I teach rush offense is that F2 has two choices: Go to the far post. Or attack the heels of the d-man...and then go far post. EDM44 attacks Letang's heels. EDM22 is doing what F3 should do (even though that's d-man Tyson Barrie) which is going to the far lane. EDM18 is now able to attack the middle lane. He crosses the net line with the puck and then it's destination far post.

##

While it wasn't a cross net-line pass, it acts the same way. And it involves a stop up at the entry. If you take it down the wall there (as you want), it's over. It's a perimeter play at best. That play dies, especially with EDM18's talent level going against PIT58 - that's a mismatch in favor of PIT58 by a mile.

Once you're outside the dot line. It's really difficult to get back inside. So by going down the wall, with every few feet you get down the boards, you're accumulating more coverage. So if you're going to work your way back inside...do it early. That's what the stop-up at the line accomplishes.

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Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:00 pm


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Postby dodint » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:05 pm

*skip"

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Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:14 pm

Hat trick might be fun that night though

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Postby willeyeam » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:29 pm

I think alts have to be used for at least 3 years so definitely not before that. With FSG in charge then, it’s possible.
Reverse retros lasted one year

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Postby nocera » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:38 pm

I think alts have to be used for at least 3 years so definitely not before that. With FSG in charge then, it’s possible.
Reverse retros lasted one year
I can't seem to find the "rules" but every team is allowed a home, away, and an alt jersey. There are special exceptions made for special event jerseys such as Winter Classic, Stadium Series, anniversary jerseys, etc. Since RR was a league-wide initiative, it didn't fall under the alt jersey rules.

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