mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby nocera » Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:45 pm

Image

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby Rylan » Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:47 pm

Can Mike Johnson come back?
Ban yourself.
But i just came back... :cry:

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Postby Jim » Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:57 pm

Jack Johnson retires from playing and becomes D coach.

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Postby NTP66 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:59 pm

oh dear god, BAN YOURSELF, TOO, JIM

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Postby Jim » Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:01 pm

oh dear god, BAN YOURSELF, TOO, JIM
Easiest way to get Johnson off of the cap and you still pay him so he is willing to retire as opposed to being bought out. He might be a good coach.

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Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:15 pm

Can Mike Johnson come back?
I don't want Mike Johnston back either

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Postby mikey » Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:18 pm

Mike Johnson, on the other hand, would be a cool add...players love him.

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Postby willeyeam » Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:22 pm

I want Gus Johnson

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Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:23 pm

Pens keeping the 15th overall. Minnesota gets the 2021 pick which is unprotected

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Postby meow » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:52 pm

Mike Johnson, on the other hand, would be a cool add...players love him.
I don't think mrs meow could take seeing Mike Johnson that much. *sploosh*

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Postby mikey » Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:13 pm

:lol:

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Postby meecrofilm » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:51 am

Real juicy Athletic article about the Pens just came out.

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Postby nocera » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:54 am

The Rob Rossi article?

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Postby NTP66 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:10 am

Can somebody post the TL;DR version here? I have no subscription. Unless it's from Rossi, then we can just ignore it.

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Postby mikey » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:12 am

Rossi & Yohe...

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Postby NTP66 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:12 am

Double no.

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Postby MR25 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:14 am

All I saw was a snippet of a quote from an unnamed player who said Zucker was the only move they felt was needed and they have no idea why GMJR brought in Sheary, Rodrigues, and Marleau and messed with the chemistry the team had.

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Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:18 am

The Rob Rossi article?
The byline is from the Drama Twins, Rossi and Yohe. :lol:

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Postby Rylan » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:19 am

To a degree, they weren't good and they weren't winning. They were one of the most devastated teams to injuries heading into March. There is some 20/20 going on there. But i can see the locker room having a different philosophy.

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Postby meow » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:24 am

What chemistry? They were below .500 the month leading up to the dealine.

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Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:24 am

The Penguins had planned to spend a couple of months in Toronto’s bubble. They stuck
around for only two weeks.
For the second time in a matter of months, the world as they knew it had changed when
they returned to Pittsburgh. Only this time, unlike in March, a pandemic was not to blame.
After conducting interviews with more than a dozen team, league and industry sources,
The Athletic has pieced together how personnel decisions, coaching strategy and lateseason chemistry issues led to the Penguins’ downfall this season, and how the economic
fallout of two failed postseasons could limit their ability to build a Stanley Cup contender.
A chaotic offseason in Pittsburgh got underway Wednesday when the Penguins dismissed
three assistant coaches. It is a long way from being finished.
How did a promising season fall apart?
After the Penguins were swept out of the 2019 postseason in the first round, general
manager Jim Rutherford resisted any urge he felt to “break up the band.” Captain Sidney
Crosby was safe, and Rutherford never seriously entertained trading center Evgeni Malkin
or defenseman Kris Letang.
There were changes — the biggest of which was Phil Kessel’s trade to the Arizona Coyotes.
The Penguins also dealt defenseman Olli Maatta to Chicago, signed Brandon Tanev to a
long-term deal and, in an under-the-radar move, added rookie defenseman John Marino.
But by and large, the core of the Penguins remained intact. There were few position battles
in training camp and lines were somewhat predictable.
The team overcame injuries to significant players to amass one of the best records in the
league. Malkin and winger Bryan Rust missed most of October, and Crosby was out from
mid-November to January after undergoing core muscle surgery. Jake Guentzel, on pace
for another 40-goal season, was lost for the season after sustaining a shoulder injury New
Year’s Eve.
If the absences slowed the Penguins, it didn’t show in the standings.
The Penguins were 9-6-1 when Crosby sustained his injury. They went 18-6-4 while he was
out, led by Malkin, a dominant top line and strong play by Tristan Jarry, who supplanted a
struggling Matt Murray as the go-to goalie.
“I thought Pittsburgh might have the best team in the league again,” said a rival executive.
“Jarry was incredible. Malkin, I think, had never been more complete as a player; you
could tell he was feeling it. They had guys on top of you every shift. Doing it without really
good players like Guentzel and (Brian) Dumoulin, and they’re getting Crosby back — if you
asked anybody in January the answer to ‘are the Penguins back’ would have been ‘yes.’”
Rutherford, who was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in November, often likes to
say a hockey team is never as good or as bad as it looks, that the trick for a general manager
is assessing what his club is in that murky, middle ground. Still, even after Crosby’s return,
the Penguins were winning while undermanned. Rutherford talked openly about not
wanting to mess with “team chemistry” by making too many moves before the trade
deadline.
24/31
His February deal to acquire winger Jason Zucker from Minnesota was embraced by
Penguins players. One said Zucker “is exactly what we needed with Jake probably not
coming back.” And after a few games with Zucker, a veteran of the 2016 and ‘17 Cup clubs
offered that “if we can just get a few guys back and keep guys in the lineup, I like our
chances against anybody in the playoffs — especially with Jarry. He’s kind of like (Murray)
was for us in ‘16.”
Internally, the Penguins saw a silvery future.
They may have been blinded to issues that had become as obvious as they were
confounding.
In their first 13 games with Crosby back in the lineup, the Penguins went 9-3-1 and
ascended to first place in the Metropolitan Division. They were a plus-10 in goal
differential and clicked on the power play at 31 percent, but their previously stifling
defense and puck possession at 5 on 5 waned.
It was during this stretch that Sullivan opted to begin splitting starts between Murray, a
two-time Cup winner, and Jarry, who had made the All-Star Game. Jarry went 5-2-0 with a
.928 save percentage. Murray was 4-1-1 and at .933.
There was no apparent problem because each of the Penguins’ goalies was going great.
Unless, that is, hockey history was the guide.
“What do they say: if you have two goalies, you don’t have one?” a Penguins player said
after the season. “It just seemed like the people in charge wanted Matt to be the one, but we
played better, for whatever reason, when Jarry played. That’s how it looked to me. I guess
coaches saw something different.”
While Sullivan ultimately decided to go with Murray when the postseason began against
Montreal, his confidence in the goaltender had been eroding for a couple of years,
according to a team source.
“Sully used to think Murray was the toughest goaltender mentally that he’d ever come
across,” the source said. “But that was then.”
The coaching staff had been continually frustrated with Murray’s habit of playing too deep
in his crease. Those occurrences typically flared after offseasons or when Murray spent
time away from the team. Murray’s tendency to make himself look small in the net, despite
his 6-foot-5 frame, is born of this habit.
It was no coincidence that the Penguins’ best stretch came in December, when Murray was
not playing.
But a backslide loomed as the trade deadline approached. The Penguins went 3-8-0, falling
from first to third place in the division, a drop that would ultimately force them into the
qualifying-round against the Canadiens and their standout goalie, Carey Price.
Their last game before the break was a win in New Jersey. It had been preceded by a
stunning weekend in Pittsburgh, where the Penguins were beaten by a combined score of
11-4 in back-to-back games against the Capitals and Hurricanes. By then, three new
forwards — veteran Parick Marleau, Evan Rodrigues and Conor Sheary (a member of the
2016 and ’17 Cup clubs) — had joined the roster. Rutherford had intended the moves to
supplement the Penguins’ depth and also provide Crosby with a familiar winger, as
Guentzel was not projected to recover from shoulder surgery in time for the start of the
playoffs in early April.
The moves might have backfired.
“It’s a bit weird, right?” said a player late in the regular season. “The GM talks about liking
the group, not wanting to risk our chemistry. And then we add three new guys at the
deadline. I don’t know. Didn’t make much sense to me, but it’s not my call.”
Added another veteran Penguins player, after the playoffs: “We had too much change all
year — so much change with guys injured and trades. We get healthy a little bit and change
more. Why?”
Adding Zucker, that player said, was the only move the Penguins needed. He also
questioned sending Dominik Kahun, a versatile forward acquired in the Maatta trade last
summer, to Buffalo for Rodrigues and Sheary.
“Kahun was a good player for us,” the player said. “Maybe the coach doesn’t like him? I’m
not sure.”
Overwhelmingly, players believed Sullivan was at his best most of the season. They praised
his calmness during the early stretch of injuries. They respected his decisions to ride
Jarry’s hot hands and the Guentzel-Malkin-Rust line from mid-November through
December. They believed he had a pulse on the squad, a clear message and the confidence
of a coach who knew he was fully supported by the Penguins’ star players, their
management and ownership.
But once in Toronto’s bubble, things changed for the Penguins.
What happened in Toronto?
Some players were troubled by Sullivan’s loyalty to players who won with him before,
specifically Sheary, Murray and Justin Schultz.
But the feeling wasn’t overwhelming.
“Look, we were one of the best teams in the league and we lost how many guys? Not just
any guys, but our top guys,” a player said. “We did that because Sully knows what he’s
doing. If you’re saying he believes in guys too much — I’d rather have a coach who does
than one who doesn’t.”
The locker room was divided about Sullivan’s choice to start Murray over Jarry before
Game 1 against Montreal, but most of the Penguins’ veterans sided with Sullivan’s decision
to go with Murray because of his playoff history.
Murray and Jarry have a good relationship and Murray never publicly criticized Sullivan
for playing Jarry as often as he did in December and January. It was clear, though, that
Murray was seething because of the lack of playing time during that portion of the season.
He believes he plays better when he receives a regular amount of work, a mindset common
among goaltenders.
Sullivan wanted to give him a final opportunity to redeem himself in the postseason and,
while Murray didn’t bomb, it seems that Penguins fans’ final image of him wearing black
and gold will be of him getting beaten by Jeff Petry’s bad-angle shot to win Game 3.
As the team trained in Pittsburgh, Sullivan was boisterous and upbeat during on-ice
workouts, paralleling an optimism he expressed with coaches and players before the
Penguins left for Toronto.
Once the team arrived in Canada, Sullivan became more subdued with a quiet confidence,
according to many players. The change was more noticeable after the Game 3 loss, which
put the Penguins one game away from elimination.
In the day between Games 3 and 4, Sullivan barely raised his voice to the players during a
meeting. He remained positive but members of the Penguins were surprised that he didn’t
show more emotion.
“I thought we deserved to be yelled at after Game 3,” a player said. “But Sully was just
confident. He kept saying, ‘I know you guys are disappointed, and so am I. But let’s just
stick with this.’ He was being positive, which was fine. But it’s not what we deserved.”
Sullivan admonished only two players during a video session the day before Game 4:
Schultz and Zach Aston-Reese. The third pairing, which included Schultz and Jack
Johnson, struggled mightily against the Canadiens. Johnson was on the ice for five goals
against in the series while Schutz was on the ice for six. While it was Johnson who received
a beating from social media regularly, it was Schultz who wore Sulivan’s wrath during the
Montreal series. Days later, Rutherford repeated this pattern by saying that Schultz had
“more to give” while refusing to criticize Johnson. 27/31
Sullivan snapped at Aston-Reese during the video review, criticizing the winger for his
retaliation penalty in the third period of Game 3. Sullivan said that if Crosby, who was
continually harassed during the series, wasn’t responding with retaliation, then AstonReese shouldn’t.
Despite this brief display of irritation, Sullivan didn’t erupt on the Penguins during this
series the way many players were expecting. The Penguins’ play in Game 4 was just as
listless.
It’s not that Sullivan didn’t care about the result — nobody suggested that. Rather, there
was a sense from numerous players that Sullivan had so much belief in this group of
players that he steadfastly believed they were going to beat the Canadiens and ultimately
make a championship run.
Overconfidence has cost the Penguins in the past, and it probably did so again against the
Canadiens.
“Our team felt too good, I think,” a team source said after the loss to Montreal. “It’s tough
to say, but maybe we still are playing if we score early in that first game. But when you have
players like ours and they don’t score and then they have to go against a trap like Montreal
has, it isn’t so easy for skill players to settle for dumping the puck and going to get it.
“And I don’t know if we had the type of team to do that.”
Constructed to win with speed, skill and depth, the Penguins at times looked slower and
thinner against the Canadiens — and any skill advantage was unrecognizable, especially on
the power play.
In past seasons, the Penguins have produced on the power play often because their players
were more creative than opponents. They could do damage without doing a lot of things
right, because Kessel excelled at zone-entries and as a shot-pass option on the side of the
ice opposite Malkin and Crosby.
The Penguins finished first overall in power play at 26.2 percent in Mark Recchi’s first
season as an assistant. They fell to eighth at 22.3 percent last season. They were 16th at
19.9 percent for the shortened 2019-20 season.
Any struggles during the regular season had been attributed to Kessel’s absence and the
constant injuries preventing Sullivan and Recchi, the power play’s architects, from finding
a rhythm with any set group of five.
But from their exhibition game against the Flyers, in which Schultz replaced Letang as the
power-play quarterback, to Game 1 against the Canadiens, where Zucker found himself on
the top unit, the Penguins’ power play appeared to be a trial-and-error exercise that
28/31
worked against them.
They looked lost on the advantage, and their one noticeable advantage, possessing the puck
in 5-on-5 situations, was stymied by continuously drawing penalties that put them on the
power play.
The struggles on the advantage against Montreal in the playoffs struck a nerve that had
bothered the Penguins dating the past couple of seasons. They had all the talent in the
hockey world and not enough results.
“We should score at 30 percent,” a player said of the power play after the loss to Montreal.
“We have no plan, the wrong mentality. I don’t know why. Coaches don’t know. We should
be great.”
In the end, a team overflowing with talent and confidence couldn’t even take the 24th-best
team in the NHL to five games.
“Sully thought they were good,” a former member of the Penguins said. “He thought they
were really good. I don’t think they were as good as he thought they were.”
What comes next?
The loss — both the actual result and the nature of the defeat — damaged the Penguins in
ways that might not become clear for months, if years. But the early response, specifically
the dismissal of three assistant coaches, appears to have confirmed that ownership is
involved in the offseason more than at any time since a hockey operations shakeup in 2014.
Jacques Martin and Sergei Gonchar, each a member of Sullivan’s extended staff dating to
the back-to-back Cup wins, were surprised by their dismissals. They, like Recchi, were
informed Wednesday morning, within an hour of the Penguins issuing a news release
stating that those assistants contracts would not be renewed.
Many around the hockey world — including current and former members of the Penguins’
organization — were stunned by Gonchar’s dismissal.
Said one former member of the organization: “Wow. I didn’t see that coming at all. I think
they’re all good coaches, and the best of the three is Gonchar. Ask any of the defensemen.
They’ll tell you.”
An NHL executive said, “Sullivan is a great coach but he likes being surrounded by yes
men. All three of those guys had those low-key personalities. That doesn’t always work.
They need someone like (Rick) Tocchet, someone who will challenge Sully. That would be
best for Sully and the Penguins.” 29/31
Though Gonchar is particularly close to Malkin, his dismissal is not a signal of renewed
strain between Malkin and Sullivan. Management believes Malkin respects Sullivan, that
any disputes are mostly the result of differing personalities occasionally clashing —
“healthy tension,” as described by one team employee.
Crosby made it clear to Rutherford last season that he does not want Malkin to be moved
for any reason, unless Malkin requests a trade. Malkin has no desire to be traded and at a
season-ending meeting reiterated his desire to finish his NHL career with the Penguins.
Ownership wants to keep Malkin tethered to Crosby for the long haul.
But things could change in other ways.
The Penguins, for the first time since 2007, likely will not spend near the salary cap to start
the upcoming season, according to multiple team and league sources.
Revenue is down, in part because of early playoff exits and in part because of the COVID19 pandemic, and ownership believes cost-cutting measures are reasonable at this time.
Rutherford would be permitted to spend to the cap in-season if ownership was convinced
the club was a piece or two away from a deep playoff run, team and industry sources said.
“They’re a revenue-based ownership. They spend what they make,” an industry source said.
“Maybe it’s not the best thing to count on playoff home games, but they do, so nobody
should be surprised if things tighten there.”
The Penguins have 16 players with guaranteed roster spots who count $68.2 million
against an $81.5 million cap. But multiple team and league sources said the Penguins will
look to spend in the low- to mid-$70 million range to start next season. To get there, the
team will seek trades of multiple veterans, especially because ownership favors those
moves over buyouts.
Rutherford told reporters this week he prefers to keep Crosby, Malkin and Letang together.
But rival executives expect him to explore a Letang trade, for multiple reasons.
“Letang’s market value is better, if you can believe it,” said one executive, who does not
believe Rutherford will ultimately move Letang. “Malkin can pick where he wants to go,
and do you get him for just two years and he goes back to Russia? With Letang, the only
thing you’re worried about is his health. Can he stay healthy? He’s still a top defenseman
and you’re probably going to keep him around if you get him, so (the Penguins) would get
more for him, I’d think.”
Added another league executive: “I’d take either guy, are you kidding? Malkin was
incredible last season. You add that guy, you’re adding a true No. 1 center. But people think
he’d only go a couple of places, and I don’t really see Jimmy or Mario breaking up Crosby
30/31
and Malkin. They’re legends. They’re still great. And who the hell is going to play center
behind Crosby?”
Like Crosby, Malkin’s contract contains a full no-movement clause. Letang’s contract has a
modified clause, making him easier to move.
As an organization, the Penguins are deeper with defensemen than they are centers. While
there is agreement among ownership and management that the Penguins would not “win”
a trade of either Malkin or Letang, a return of draft picks, prospects and cap space would
not be without value.
“They’ve had how many years of sellouts there? Good luck with them if you move one of
those players,” an industry source said. “They traded (Marc-Andre) Fleury because they
had Murray. That didn’t go their way. Do they think fans will forget about that if they move
another beloved player while pushing the replacement as the future? I sure as hell don’t.”
Despite the challenges — a new group of assistant coaches, a new franchise goalie and a
group of younger, less-experienced players — many around the league believe the Penguins
are better positioned than their recent postseason record indicates. And Rutherford, who
operated on a budget during his run in Carolina, is more familiar than anybody in the
organization with building a contender without the deepest well of resources.
“There’s always some kind of drama in Pittsburgh when they don’t win the Cup. It’s always,
‘That’s the end of the Penguins.’ And it never is,” one rival executive said.
“They think it was their bounce-back season and that they failed. The rest of us think they
overachieved during a rebuilding season. I think the Penguins are fine. But if they want to
overreact and blow everything up, a lot of us will be all for it. That’s one less dangerous
team to worry about.”
I attempted to use a Chrome extension to cut the pictures and captions out to make it easier to copy pasta. Turns it into a blob of text, unfortunately.

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby nocera » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:35 am

A whole lot of anonymous sources. It's hard to put much stock into that, especially coming from Yohe and Rossi.

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby mikey » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:56 am

Obviously, no one wants their name attached to those kinds of things...so it's either get that, or get nothing...knowledge is currency in the league...

You can't sit around and trash your peers and then continue to talk to them like nothing happened...

If you're on Bill/Bert, nocera, I think that's where Burr says that he doesn't want to meet Michelle Obama because then he couldn't pick on her...same deal.

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby nocera » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:59 am

I understand why they chose to be anonymous, but "according to a team source" could mean basically anybody. It's either Crosby or the assistant to the traveling secretary.

If it wasn't Yohe & Rossi, I'd probably believe it more.

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Postby NTP66 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:01 pm

Source of the post If it wasn't Yohe & Rossi, I'd probably believe it more.
This is where I am. I have no problem with "according to a team source", because that's how sensitive topics are handled with players and the media. I just don't particularly trust those two - Rossi much less than Yohe.

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