mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

nocera
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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby nocera » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Having tried and failed to use this board's search function, I'm just impressed at the amount of effort that went into that reply.

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby willeyeam » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:29 pm

I suppose mentioning their names counts as addressed if we're being technical

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby Jim » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:43 pm

Jacques Martin's first year with us was 2013-14. Niskanen got Norris votes that season. Jultz got Norris votes (then he had a serious injury) a few years ago. They made JMFJ serviceable this past season. 100% got Maatta straight (top 5 rookie, top 5 in +/- I think). Ian Cole is another good advantage of a salvage, he wasn't an NHL regular when we got him. Dumoulin was an average prospect, who improved massively since being in the NHL. I won't even give them Marino, he may have been good anyhow...

Pettersson was the Maatta replacement...I'm not sure he was "groundlessly praised"...I was alive during all this, Jim. I don't know who you're trying to sell on this stuff...

There's definitely guys that haven't worked out and we keep throwing these guys garbage to work with...fringe/non-NHLers: Hunwick, Badbranson, Pouliot, Oleksiak, Johnson, etc.

The "I don't care who to blame" is how failures occur...because it's very important that you find out where the point of failure is. In my 1, 2, 3, 4 approach a couple pages ago, it seems like a fair opinion at worst that they're making chicken salad out of chicken feathers with this group...

I think the fault belongs on the GM more than anyone at this point...this roster isn't that good. This isn't a new opinion for me this year, I'm not a big change with the wind guy...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1567&p=721290&hilit ... er#p721290

10/2 :
Yeah, we still have some stars and ya never know what a star can do...but it's a roster without a real direction...
10/9:
Yeah, this looks like a personnel issue...it's not a very good roster...and I don't see a lot of good outs...we have a shot at making the playoffs, of course...but the roster is full of very average players..
12/5:
Meh, I don't get too high or too low. But we won a game against the Blues. That's good. We win two lose two. We're like 7-8 last calendar month or whatever. I'll start looking for other avenues when the roster starts to not match the results. Average team (mas o menos) is producing about what you'd expect.
1/15:
Man, I hate to say it because I'm gonna get beaten up here because everyone is so high...this team isn't anything special to a man...it's well-coached and believing in their defensive structure and the new faces have fit in like gangbusters (Jarry, Tanev, not Chucky, etc.)...but it's a pretty average roster with some star power...

Playing structured defense, but having a couple guys who can just take a game over when the time comes...that's a great combination...but this isn't a particularly noteworthy roster for me...
Even if our coaching wasn't great the last four games...it's tough with a roster like this. I have a lot of respect for Sully, Gonchar, and Martin have done, so do folks around the league for the most part...so it is extremely important where you place the blame because if you replace the good thing we have going with something worse and pair that with the bad thing we have going, you're going to get a real tough situation here for a while...

Do it right, or pay the price.
I still fail to see where your argument against what I originally sad came from. None of the coaches have done a good job over the last few years, none. I have also become critical of Rutherford. His past year+ has been down right awful.

I don't care who was where in 2014 when talking about that should be done with the coaching staff this summer. It is 100% irrelevant.

Pettersson was groundlessly praised by both fans and staff. He certainly wasn't bad, but he wasn't good, yet everyone loved him. He was given a $4M cap hit and is not worth it at all. I don't know what you are not seeing there.

"The "I don't care who to blame" is how failures occur."... no... Saying so-in-so was here in 2014 so he should get a free pass today is how failures occur.

I guess I am just not following your argument. You are using positives from over 5 years ago and ignoring everything over the last few years. I still don't know how Engelland getting ice time nearly a decade ago means someone shouldn't get replaced today. I don't know how Niskanen becoming a decent D in 2012 means someone shouldn't get replaced today.

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby Jim » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:47 pm

I suppose mentioning their names counts as addressed if we're being technical
Maybe actually read... I went into some details about Schultz and Pettersson. Yet You said I ignored them. Fail on your part. Yeah, I ignored the guy that played a whole 16 games. I ignored other guys that didn't really play much either. Whopitydoo

Swing and a miss

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby Jim » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:48 pm

I am not a Pettersson fan, personally.
Careful, your be accused of ignoring him.

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Postby mikey » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:11 pm

Jacques Martin's first year with us was 2013-14. Niskanen got Norris votes that season. Jultz got Norris votes (then he had a serious injury) a few years ago. They made JMFJ serviceable this past season. 100% got Maatta straight (top 5 rookie, top 5 in +/- I think). Ian Cole is another good advantage of a salvage, he wasn't an NHL regular when we got him. Dumoulin was an average prospect, who improved massively since being in the NHL. I won't even give them Marino, he may have been good anyhow...

Pettersson was the Maatta replacement...I'm not sure he was "groundlessly praised"...I was alive during all this, Jim. I don't know who you're trying to sell on this stuff...

There's definitely guys that haven't worked out and we keep throwing these guys garbage to work with...fringe/non-NHLers: Hunwick, Badbranson, Pouliot, Oleksiak, Johnson, etc.

The "I don't care who to blame" is how failures occur...because it's very important that you find out where the point of failure is. In my 1, 2, 3, 4 approach a couple pages ago, it seems like a fair opinion at worst that they're making chicken salad out of chicken feathers with this group...

I think the fault belongs on the GM more than anyone at this point...this roster isn't that good. This isn't a new opinion for me this year, I'm not a big change with the wind guy...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1567&p=721290&hilit ... er#p721290

10/2 :
Yeah, we still have some stars and ya never know what a star can do...but it's a roster without a real direction...
10/9:
Yeah, this looks like a personnel issue...it's not a very good roster...and I don't see a lot of good outs...we have a shot at making the playoffs, of course...but the roster is full of very average players..
12/5:
Meh, I don't get too high or too low. But we won a game against the Blues. That's good. We win two lose two. We're like 7-8 last calendar month or whatever. I'll start looking for other avenues when the roster starts to not match the results. Average team (mas o menos) is producing about what you'd expect.
1/15:
Man, I hate to say it because I'm gonna get beaten up here because everyone is so high...this team isn't anything special to a man...it's well-coached and believing in their defensive structure and the new faces have fit in like gangbusters (Jarry, Tanev, not Chucky, etc.)...but it's a pretty average roster with some star power...

Playing structured defense, but having a couple guys who can just take a game over when the time comes...that's a great combination...but this isn't a particularly noteworthy roster for me...
Even if our coaching wasn't great the last four games...it's tough with a roster like this. I have a lot of respect for Sully, Gonchar, and Martin have done, so do folks around the league for the most part...so it is extremely important where you place the blame because if you replace the good thing we have going with something worse and pair that with the bad thing we have going, you're going to get a real tough situation here for a while...

Do it right, or pay the price.
I still fail to see where your argument against what I originally sad came from. None of the coaches have done a good job over the last few years, none. I have also become critical of Rutherford. His past year+ has been down right awful.

I don't care who was where in 2014 when talking about that should be done with the coaching staff this summer. It is 100% irrelevant.

Pettersson was groundlessly praised by both fans and staff. He certainly wasn't bad, but he wasn't good, yet everyone loved him. He was given a $4M cap hit and is not worth it at all. I don't know what you are not seeing there.

"The "I don't care who to blame" is how failures occur."... no... Saying so-in-so was here in 2014 so he should get a free pass today is how failures occur.

I guess I am just not following your argument. You are using positives from over 5 years ago and ignoring everything over the last few years. I still don't know how Engelland getting ice time nearly a decade ago means someone shouldn't get replaced today. I don't know how Niskanen becoming a decent D in 2012 means someone shouldn't get replaced today.
It's about a proven track record of this staff being able to salvage NHL level talent. The coaching staff did a good job even this year with a very average group. We had a hell of a season relative to the talent we have.

I don't recall anyone being anything more than pleasantly surprised with Pettersson...but compared to who he replaced (Maatta), who was thought of a future Norris winner by some, Pettersson really didn't have that much fanfare to my recollection...he played well, got some likes, got some money, and that's that...

No one has said that 2014 supersedes what is happening now...it was establishing a pattern of behavior. That has followed through and one would expect to continue to follow through if they're given even remotely useful players...

You purposefully misrepresenting the argument to yell at a cloud is probably why you're not following it...I've been here and on LGP a while, Jim...so have you...I'm not some fly-by-night, loser crew guy coming in and spouting off nonsense...if you want to have a conversation about making the team better, I'm all ears...if you just want to yell indiscriminately that things are bad and to burn things belligerently, fine, just say those words and I'll just get out of the way...

As I see it, this is a good coaching staff and they have done a good job and they have helped propped up otherwise poorer players...the GM is the problem. That's the argument. Couldn't be simpler. Won't be said again.

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby willeyeam » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:11 pm

Well this was fun. See you guys in NHR

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby DigitalGypsy66 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:22 pm

Wait, quarrelling outside of the Political and/or COVID threads? What is going on here? :lol:

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby mikey » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:48 pm

Rarely get to talk about hockey here, but then it gets done in such an aggressively disorganized way...it's a little annoying haha...

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby meecrofilm » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:48 pm

Almost two hours 'til Lafreniere is a Pen!

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:50 pm

Almost two hours 'til Lafreniere is a Pen!
This.

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Postby mikey » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:50 pm

I don't want to get anyone excited...because we're not gonna win this. But if we do, make sure you watch some Tim Stuetzle (your spelling may vary) highlights as well...fascinating player...

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby Jim » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:07 pm

...I've been here and on LGP a while, Jim...so have you...I'm not some fly-by-night, loser crew guy coming in and spouting off nonsense...if you want to have a conversation about making the team better, I'm all ears...if you just want to yell indiscriminately that things are bad and to burn things belligerently, fine, just say those words and I'll just get out of the way...

As I see it, this is a good coaching staff and they have done a good job and they have helped propped up otherwise poorer players...the GM is the problem. That's the argument. Couldn't be simpler. Won't be said again.
Won't be said again? Good, then no reply to this.

The 2014 stuff was your main defense for the coaching staff.. so that was you

The GM is a problem. The head coach is a problem. All ove the assistant coaches are a problem. I won't specifically name any because that was apparently a problem. No, I will name Buckley. Bales should not have been replaced.

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby Jim » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:09 pm

Rarely get to talk about hockey here, but then it gets done in such an aggressively disorganized way...it's a little annoying haha...
I can only be me.

It's really fun with religion.

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby Gaucho » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:59 pm

Almost two hours 'til Lafreniere is a Pen!
One hour!

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby King Colby » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:00 pm

The GM hasn't done so great the last 18-24 months. I dont love the Petterson deal. Theyve got 3 more years on significantly overpriced hornqvist and Johnson. Another year on bjugstad. Another FIVE years on tanev (?). They got practically nothing for Phil because he waited one year too long to move him. Identifying sheary and marleau as guys that can help was, uh, weird.

That roster was not good. They played within themselves while sid was out, simplified the game and won the way they had to win. That was their best stretch of the season.. Thats good coaching.

When Sid came back they just expected to win just by showing up.

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Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:05 pm

Marino for a 6th was a solid deal though

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby King Colby » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:06 pm

I dont think they need to clean house over a no-show in a **** match-up after 5 months off. I do think the GM needs to have a mistake free off-season. See what you have in some of these younger guys like Poulin, Legare, O'Connor. See if you can get an old friend to do you a solid and take some of your dead contracts. Try and find another undervalued 22 year old like Marino or petterson or mccann. See how far Jarry can carry you.

If it doesnt work and the team underperformed, gas the coaching staff in January. There's really no rush right now - its unlikely they can go from this to a cup contender in one short and strange offseason.

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Postby King Colby » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:15 pm

Are there any good free agent fits? The only guys that made me look twice so far were the other tanev, brodie, Edmundson. Maybe Granlund? Eakin? Smith?

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Postby Gaucho » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:23 pm

We need you to focus on the lottery, KC.

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Postby Lemon Berry Lobster » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:36 pm

Are there any good free agent fits? The only guys that made me look twice so far were the other tanev, brodie, Edmundson. Maybe Granlund? Eakin? Smith?
Not sure if FA is really an option. Think they'll have a hard enough time getting all the RFAs signed with the flat cap

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby King Colby » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:38 pm

Are there any good free agent fits? The only guys that made me look twice so far were the other tanev, brodie, Edmundson. Maybe Granlund? Eakin? Smith?
Not sure if FA is really an option. Think they'll have a hard enough time getting all the RFAs signed with the flat cap
True unless they can move some of the dead space out

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Postby Gaucho » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:40 pm

The only RFAs they need to re-sign and keep are Jarry and Lafferty. Move the rest out.

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby meecrofilm » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:40 pm

I don't want to get anyone excited...because we're not gonna win this.
Unless you're actually Gary Bettman, I'm still holding out hope.

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mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby King Colby » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:41 pm

We need you to focus on the lottery, KC.
Badger herbie and briere
Pop our ball into the air
Gary says out loud again
"The winner is the pittsburgh pens"

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