mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

Postby **skullman80** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:17 pm

Obviously common knowledge, but from a credible source at least.

The sense is the Penguins after that road trip have a very clear sense of what needs to be done before Friday's deadline. And charting a course accordingly. Exploring all options with view to bolster the club for the future. Hearing there's 6-plus legit suitors for Guentzel, VGK and VAN among them.

Postby **MR25** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:18 pm

if you don't think having the second worst PP% in franchise history is underachieving then idk what to tell you

we joke about how bad the x generation teams were and THIS IS WORSE THAN THAT

Only if you never actually watched those teams

Postby **skullman80** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:22 pm

if you don't think having the second worst PP% in franchise history is underachieving then idk what to tell you

we joke about how bad the x generation teams were and THIS IS WORSE THAN THAT

Only if you never actually watched those teams

I assumed he meant the PP was worse this year...at least with the talent it has. The 03-04 team actually had a better PP%.

Doing a quick search the 03-04 team was at like 18% powerplay. (https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/PIT/2004.html)

This years team is only at 14% though...so this years team is actually worse haha. (https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/PIT/)

I would argue watching the 03-04 team was less painful just because you expected them to suck... and boy did they suck, plus there was no expectations.

This years team you at least had some small semblance of hope of them not being total garbage.

Postby **King Colby** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:27 pm

if you don't think having the second worst PP% in franchise history is underachieving then idk what to tell you

we joke about how bad the x generation teams were and THIS IS WORSE THAN THAT

It's the whole body of work. You can't just say "all we need is to be better at the thing we're worst at and we'd be great!"

Aunt-balls-uncle thing

Postby **MalkinIsMyHomeboy** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:43 pm

I'm specifically responding to your point that the team is not underperofmring, which is demonstrably false. the PP is strongly underperforming. if the PP was performing at what we'd expect (22-23% or so) we would still be a flawed team, but we wouldn't be "out of the playoffs" bad

in franchise history, the median goals per game for the PP is 0.8. This season we're at 0.49 PPG/G. That's a difference of about 18 goals through 59 games. That is massive. https://www.nhl.com/stats/teams?aggrega ... ageSize=50

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:44 pm

In 2004, our net PP% through the end of February was 9.9% - 27th in the NHL. After the deadline, the Penguins went on an inexplicable run...we had the third best record in the league from right around the deadline until the end of the year. Our net PP from 2/29 thru the end of the year was 30.9% - #1 in the NHL during that time. The next best team was 24.2. Only four teams were above 19%.

Our true PP% was 32.4%.

We were really bad for most of that year. But the addition of Ric Jackman blew the top off of our offense...

Jackman and Tarnstrom on the point with Kraft, Morozov, and usually Lasse Pirjeta were absolutely lethal for about six weeks.

Of course, all of those players were out of the league by the end of 2007...

Postby **skullman80** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:45 pm

Never forget...

Postby **MR25** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:49 pm

I guess we have different definitions of total garbage then. A Chicago or Columbus situation is "total garbage".

I came into the season with minimal expectations. Karlsson was a great addition, but the bottom 6 was still just "Dude-Dude-Dude". I didn't foresee the PP being this bad, but I'm not pulling my hair out over it or getting histrionic about it being worse than the X Gen.

We had a pretty long run of success. Everything after the 2017 Cup was just playing with house money. Do I wish we would've had a little more success post 2017? Sure. But it's hard to really get worked up over things anymore. I'm just here to enjoy watching Sid, Geno, Letang, and now Karlsson play hockey while I can, results be damned.

Postby **MR25** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:53 pm

Oh, and people throw around the word "embarrassing" way too often that it's more or less lost all meaning with me.

Postby **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:54 pm

The end to the 2004 season was an incredible time during the Generation X. Ric Jackman a point per game player, Morozov putting up numbers and being a leader despite a nearly half season goal drought, Ryan Malone proving he wasn't just drafted because of who his dad is, Rico Fata showing a shred of hockey sense for almost an entire season. What a time to be alive.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:02 pm

Oh that's right...Morozov went like 40 games without a goal in there...the best goal scorer on the team (except Mario, of course) didn't score for months..."what a time to be alive" is right haha

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:06 pm

Matthew Phillips on waivers today.

Postby **MR25** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:18 pm

Feels like his only "contribution" was refusing to one-time on a wide open net and throwing the pass that led to Kempe's shorthanded game winner.

Postby **Lelldorin** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:00 pm

IMO, that seems to be a bigger knock on the pro scouting team than it is Dubas given how little time he had in the org prior to free agency.

Feels like we need to clean house in scouting aside from the new guys he brought in in August.

To note, this isn't me saying that Dubas is free of blame, especially when it comes to the Graves contract, but it feels like scouting has been lacking for quite some time and still has the Hextall stank on it.

I might be wrong, but shouldn't Dubas have had some sort of knowledge about Graves from his Toronto job? I don't know how the teams operate but it seems strange that he now nothing about Graves before he switched to Pens.

My point is that I am happy with Dubas except Graves. And I am blaming him for that signing more than the rest of you seem to do

Postby **MR25** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:07 pm

I mean, if Toronto's staff has Graves listed as their (example) 20th option for a LHD, but he comes to the Pens and the scout team here has him listed as top 5 fit and goes to bat for the player, it's not really that shocking that he might not have pursued him in the context of Toronto's roster.

Then again, it's all but been confirmed that Dubas was more or less Shanahan's puppet in Toronto, so who knows for sure.

Not everyone is GMJR and continually retreads through players they had or wanted to get at their old jobs lol

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:10 pm

He knew. It was just a bad scouting job. He's a little tough to scout if you're not very good at it. Like, I see how someone could think he was good...I know scouts that think he's good. Some guys are just tough to read. Graves is an easy read for me, but I'll struggle with another player type. Everyone in the league knows Ryan Graves, that wasn't the issue. They thought they could shoehorn him into a good team and be ok - like Colorado and New Jersey did...but joke's on him, we aren't on a good team...

Postby **NTP66** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:51 pm

A trade deadline in which we're sellers of a big piece. I am not a fan.

Postby **meow** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:54 pm

but joke's on him, we aren't on a good team...

Postby **meow** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:56 pm

I’m mad we have the best goaltending tandem in the league and can’t insulate them long enough to scrape a few wins together

Postby **King Colby** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:42 pm

I'm specifically responding to your point that the team is not underperofmring, which is demonstrably false. the PP is strongly underperforming. if the PP was performing at what we'd expect (22-23% or so) we would still be a flawed team, but we wouldn't be "out of the playoffs" bad

in franchise history, the median goals per game for the PP is 0.8. This season we're at 0.49 PPG/G. That's a difference of about 18 goals through 59 games. That is massive. https://www.nhl.com/stats/teams?aggrega ... ageSize=50

"Demonstrably false" gtfo. It's been 60 games. There are areas where they stink (PP) and areas where they're solid (5 on 5 team defense). You can't just sit here at tell me the team is underperforming by cherry picking the things they stink at...

60 games

Postby **King Colby** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 5:44 pm

Underperforming is like when something goes cold and you lose 4 of 6.

60 games just means you stink

Postby **MalkinIsMyHomeboy** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:02 pm

sorry KC but that’s one of the dumbest things I’ve read. It’s been 3/4 of a season. Their lackluster PP is the single biggest influence on why they’re going to miss the playoffs. And with 3 out of the 4 of 87, 71, 58 and 65 still playing at a high level on 5 in 5, it’s definitely not a personnel issue

like I said, even a franchise average level PP would have gotten them 18 more PP goals scored on the season. That’s likely the difference between where they are right now and where they would be in the standings of at least 10 points

whether you like it or not we are an above average even strength and short handed team. We’re not scoring at the rate we’re accustomed too but we have two really strong goaltenders and can play good defensive hockey

Postby **crusherstasiak** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:22 pm

Everyone in the league knows Ryan Graves, that wasn't the issue.

do scouts ever talk about players they're scouting with current or former players ?

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:25 pm

Everyone in the league knows Ryan Graves, that wasn't the issue.
do scouts ever talk about players they're scouting with current or former players ?

Scouts won't talk to current players, no. Generally not. Guys that are friends with former players talk about guys though over some beers, sure. I'm not sure if I quite get the angle of your question though, so I might not be giving you the best answer.

Postby **crusherstasiak** » Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:30 pm

Everyone in the league knows Ryan Graves, that wasn't the issue.
do scouts ever talk about players they're scouting with current or former players ?
Scouts won't talk to current players, no. Generally not. Guys that are friends with former players talk about guys though over some beers, sure. I'm not sure if I quite get the angle of your question though, so I might not be giving you the best answer.

that's pretty much it i suppose
to be more specific though: bartkowski replying "I didn't" followed by a chuckle after madden had told him he'd expected more from ryan graves.
based on your reply i'm guessing it's -for want of a better semi-phrase- 'bad form' for a scout to glean info in this manner?