mikey's Thread of Penguin Randomness

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Postby mikey » Tue May 17, 2022 10:24 am

Too reductive to be approachable...

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Postby faftorial » Tue May 17, 2022 10:25 am

They stole one without him six years ago so they *need* a 7 to 10 year older version of him is some really good logic pretzeling, IMO.
Again, who specifically would you replace him with? It's easy say let him go but someone needs to fill those minutes.

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Postby Morkle » Tue May 17, 2022 10:25 am

lol right, with an older Geno who was practically invisible this playoffs, and older Carter, and less overall defensive depth.

I don't disagree. I just find the assertion that he's practically irreplaceable a little weird. The rest of the NHL doesn't have a Letang and they all manage. It's a chance to completely revamp the d-corp, and while weaker now may be better in a year.

Doesn't even matter who I think they can bring in to replace him. It was proven than in a stressful 16 game sprint, they made Ron Freakin' Hainsey work as the top option.

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Postby Morkle » Tue May 17, 2022 10:27 am

They stole one without him six years ago so they *need* a 7 to 10 year older version of him is some really good logic pretzeling, IMO.
Again, who specifically would you replace him with? It's easy say let him go but someone needs to fill those minutes.
The question literally doesn't matter is what I'm getting at. They've shown a good coach can fill those minutes and replace his style by actually coaching scheme and the team buying in. If they can't do the latter, it's a problem larger than just one player.

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Postby mikey » Tue May 17, 2022 10:28 am

Yeah, this is a fundamental lacking here...it's not worth discussing for the sixth year in a row...

"The rest of the NHL doesn't have a Letang" is just a crazy poor interpretation of roster building...

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Postby meow » Tue May 17, 2022 10:30 am

I’m not saying Letang is irreplaceable. I’m saying that this team - as it currently sits; not a roster from 6 years ago - needs a number 1 defenseman to win. I have no confidence in our ability to land one in the next year or two if he walks out the door. There are a dozen teams out there that don’t have a number 1.

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Postby Morkle » Tue May 17, 2022 10:31 am

Well, in the simplest form what I'm saying is that you can work to establish a roster without Letang if you let him go. I understand what he brings to the table, but if he leaves for more money, they're going to have to do it anyways, and I have more faith they can do that than most I guess.

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Postby mikey » Tue May 17, 2022 10:32 am

Oh man, it got even worse..."it doesn't matter" to lose a #! d-man on this completely different team because we made it a couple weeks without one - on the back of two halves of Smythe-worthy performances from two different goalies...that's rough.

Like a point per game d-man that plays 30 a night with various partners..."ah, no big deal...we'll be fine because one time we had a completely different team that was three lines heavy" I don't know how you can get there genuinely...

By this logic, we should be fine with Domingue replacing Jarry because one time Zatkoff won a game...?

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Postby dodint » Tue May 17, 2022 10:33 am

I just find the assertion that he's practically irreplaceable a little weird. The rest of the NHL doesn't have a Letang and they all manage.
I think that sentiment comes from a combination of homerism and having Letang part of the 'core' (whatever that means). Some fans have probably never seen a team without Letang on it and find the idea terrifying (not so much here, this group is more experienced than most Pens fans). Letang is a zero-time Norris Trophy winner who was absent for one of the two most recent cup wins, but is somehow irreplaceable at 35 years old.

His high-minute risk/reward style of play is going to have a fall-off point. I'm okay if that happens with another team. I'm also okay if it happens here at a reasonable salary. My quibble is with this notion of 'irreplaceability'. Hell, I don't even want a Letang clone. Get me someone that plays D and isn't expected to be a PPQB and I'm happy.

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Postby nocera » Tue May 17, 2022 10:34 am

Well Domingue won 3 games this playoffs. Jarry didn't win any.

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Postby willeyeam » Tue May 17, 2022 10:35 am

the thing with replacing Letang is that we're not gonna go out and sign a #1 D for what we were prepared to pay him. So that leaves us with maybe two $4 million guys. That's like a Ceci and a Marino. Good luck

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Postby meow » Tue May 17, 2022 10:35 am

Would you rather have a number 1 dman on your roster or not?

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Postby Morkle » Tue May 17, 2022 10:35 am

I understand what Letang brings to the table, and I even said he's the one I would sign the most if I could. I'm just not signing the guy if he's hitting north of $8mm, and judging by the rumored reports, it doesn't appear atm, the Pens are comfortable with that either.

I don't think this team can win with him as currently constructed either way.

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Postby Gaucho » Tue May 17, 2022 10:36 am

Point is the team needs a #1 dman.

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Postby Morkle » Tue May 17, 2022 10:38 am

Of course, I'd rather have a number 1 defenseman on the team. I can just see why there's hesitation with the Pens if they don't want to commit large sums of money to Letang.

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Postby Gaucho » Tue May 17, 2022 10:39 am

Not replying to you, just a general statement.

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Postby meow » Tue May 17, 2022 10:42 am

This is a mess since no one is quoting anyone, but **** it I’ma keep it going.

If you wanna dance, you gotta pay the band. A number 1 d-man is in the band. We have one already on the payroll. Don’t let him walk out the door. All the other UFAs can go. The number 1 d-man has to stay

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Postby dodint » Tue May 17, 2022 10:43 am

For how long? What's the optimal term?

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Postby Gaucho » Tue May 17, 2022 10:43 am

This is a mess since no one is quoting anyone.
Yes.

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Postby Morkle » Tue May 17, 2022 10:45 am

I was replying to Meow. My preference is always to have a bonafide number 1. The hesitation on my part personally, is age, and what's happened recently with the Pens, and where I'd see the Pens not giving him what he wants.

1) He's old. In better shape than most people his age, but if he retires tomorrow from an injury or health issue, they have to pay for it. New ownership may not be looking to do that (yes, they can likely trade him, but lose assets too).

2) They haven't won anything since 2018. With the same core, the new ownership group may want to take it in a different direction. It's not Mario calling the shots.

3) IIRC this ownership group does low-ball players. See Mookie Betts situation in baseball, so if they bring that style here, it may not be a fun ride the next few years.

I don't know, just a variety of things stick out as to what would cause hesitation.

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Postby FistOfCaufield » Tue May 17, 2022 10:47 am

So what's the thought here?
to keep any of these guys, you have to overspend on them, which means you probably only keep 1.

If I had to pick one, it would be letang just because that's the hardest thing to fill - and I trust him to physically be able to handle it moreso than the other players.

I don't want to overspend on Malkin, and I'm not sure what you'd have to overspend on Rust but I don't know if you get the same bang for your buck there.

If Im going to overspend, its at #1 defeseman.

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Postby meow » Tue May 17, 2022 10:48 am

Three years is the no brainer. That’s when Sid’s contract ends too

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Postby dodint » Tue May 17, 2022 10:48 am

So what's the thought here?
to keep any of these guys, you have to overspend on them, which means you probably only keep 1.

If I had to pick one, it would be letang just because that's the hardest thing to fill - and I trust him to physically be able to handle it moreso than the other players.

I don't want to overspend on Malkin, and I'm not sure what you'd have to overspend on Rust but I don't know if you get the same bang for your buck there.

If Im going to overspend, its at #1 defeseman.
I'd overspend, some, on Letang so long as the term is three years or less.

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Postby Morkle » Tue May 17, 2022 10:49 am

That's exactly how I feel, honestly. They're keeping one, I'd prefer it be Letang knowing the cost is going to be higher.

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Postby nocera » Tue May 17, 2022 10:50 am

You'll get 3 years of a listless Malkin and you'll like it.

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