Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

count2infinity
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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby count2infinity » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:29 am

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/h ... e23680117/
1. Pittsburgh. Sid is a kid no longer. And the Penguins remaining in a win-now mode for years has really hurt their ability to incorporate youth in a significant way. With Sidney Crosby approaching 28 and Evgeni Malkin already there, Pittsburgh’s core is moving out of its prime as the NHL continues to get younger and younger. The highest-scoring Penguin 24 and under this season has been defenceman Simon Despres (17 points) – and they already unloaded him to Anaheim. Olli Maatta’s injury issues have hurt the Pens’ ranking, but even with him healthy, they’d remain bottom three. This is a growing concern.

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:33 am

Maybe once Malkin/Crosby hit 30 will I start to be really concerned.

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby Craig » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:53 am

Yes

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby Silentom » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:58 am

Nope. Just didn't have the win now pieces.

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby NAN » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:00 am

I think you need the right balance, but I also think they are in the win now window. That should only be open for a little bit longer.

I'd be disappointed if this "core" only walks away with 1 cup win. 2 would be legit and anything more would be gravy IMO.

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby mikey » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:21 am

Nah, we just don't draft particularly well...the Red Wings have been in win-now mode since 1994...and yeah, they've unloaded some pieces that they should not have over the years...but they draft well and develop properly...

We'd have youth if we were better drafters/developers...

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby Craig » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:55 am

Maybe im confusing what is meant by win now. To me it means sell out the future for this year. They have screwed the present because theyve had that attitude for closing in on a decade.

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby count2infinity » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:57 am

Maybe im confusing what is meant by win now. To me it means sell out the future for this year. They have screwed the present because theyve had that attitude for closing in on a decade.
That's what I think as well... they've been buyers at the trade deadline for years now. There's been a lot of potential prospects and draft picks that have been traded away. Couple that with what mikey said about not properly drafting and developing talent. That's going to come back to bite them eventually. Maybe already has.

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby meow » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:05 am

Would you rather them take a year off of trying to win? I get the argument, but the question is worded improperly.

"The Pens have been in "win now" mode for years, but have they gone about it properly?"

Hell no.
Last edited by meow on Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby Kicksave » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:00 pm

I'm going to be disappointed if the Sid/Geno era doesn't end up with at least 3 cups. Win one more in the next 2-3 years and then one more when they're in their mid-late thirties.

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby Robot B9 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:07 pm

I'm going to be disappointed if the Sid/Geno era doesn't end up with at least 3 cups. Win one more in the next 2-3 years and then one more when they're in their mid-late thirties.
That's pretty much my attitude. If they don't, then I'll be guilty of thinking it could have been done via talent more than anything else, which I believe is a big part of the win-now approach.

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby shmenguin » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:14 pm

the murray/leopold/poni-type trades were poor form. guys who, at best, were going to give you a marginal improvement over what you already have. shero went a little too nuts with that stuff.

but making the perron trade, and things like that - i have no problem there.

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby Avyran » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:16 pm

Also from the same article (didn't realize c2i posted it, my bad). Image is kinda long, so I spoiled it.
Image
Last edited by Avyran on Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby MR25 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:18 pm

I sense a common theme in that list...

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby Pitts » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:38 pm

I do not agree with that. I liken Pittsburgh to Detroit with one exception...Detroit knows how to draft! Detroit never seems to over-extend itself in win now mode. Why? Because they draft well. The Pens really need to fix that. It has been an issue for decades (like 5 decades).

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby large garlic » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:10 pm

the murray/leopold/poni-type trades were poor form. guys who, at best, were going to give you a marginal improvement over what you already have. shero went a little too nuts with that stuff.

but making the perron trade, and things like that - i have no problem there.
Yeah, that's along the lines of what I was thinking. The Pens have been acting as if "win now" means consistently overpaying for older UFAs at the deadline who are marginal upgrades. I wonder if the Pens would have gotten equal or better results in the years since the Cup by just keeping their picks and not going for those mid-grade vet UFAs.

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby Craig » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:13 pm

couldn't have been much worse.

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby shafnutz05 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:53 pm

I sense a common theme in that list...
True enough. Just by sheer odds, the more young people a team has playing, the more points they will score. Doesn't necessarily point to the talent of said players (but is certainly a correlation).

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby MR25 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:16 pm

I sense a common theme in that list...
True enough. Just by sheer odds, the more young people a team has playing, the more points they will score. Doesn't necessarily point to the talent of said players (but is certainly a correlation).
True, but I was speaking more of the teams at the top of the list vs. the teams at the bottom. There's a common theme: Top 10 draft picks, which I guess is part of the talent part of your post. It also has a trickle down effect, as 2nd round picks could yield 1st round talent.

Since the 2009 entry draft (18 is the age limit for the draft, so 24 less 18 is 6 years, 2009 was 6 years ago), here's how many top 10 picks each team (in the top 5 of that list, because that's all the work I felt like doing) has had:

1. Tampa - 4: 2009 (2), 2010 (6), 2012 (10), 2013 (3). Not sure if they are including Stamkos in that, since he turned 25 in February, but he was a #1 pick in 2008).
2. Edmonton - 6: 2009 (10), 2010 (1), 2011 (1), 2012 (1), 2013 (7), 2014 (3) (Eberle was a 22nd pick in 2008, but surely factors in, as he turns 25 in May)
3. Islanders - 5: 2009 (1), 2010 (5), 2011 (5), 2012 (4), 2014 (5) (also picked Josh Bailey with the 9th OV pick in 2008, and he's scored ~ 40 points thus far).
4. Florida - 4: 2010 (3), 2011 (3), 2013 (2), 2014 (1) (also picked Kulikov 14th in 2009)
5. Ottawa (this is probably an outlier) 2- : 2009 (9), 2011 (6) (picked Erik Karlsson 15th in 2008, Cody Ceci 15th in 2012)

Those are just the top 5. Off the top of my head, Colorado and Nashville have had the most top 10-15 picks out of the remaining bunch.

Picking high in the draft really gets teams the talent that other teams like the Pens, Vancouver, LA, Chicago, and St Louis don't really have a chance at unless they get lucky and trade up (like Tarasenko in the case of St Louis, he was acquired with the Senator's 16th pick in 2011).

The fun thing would be to see if all that young talent is a cause, an effect, or both to how often these teams got the high picks.

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Have the Pens been in "win now" mode for too many years?

Postby Sarcastic » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:51 pm

Penguins will and should be in a win-now mode for as long as they have Sid and Geno. They're still young enough anyway.

They didn't incorporate youth into their lineup because of poor drafting and/or developing. Nothing else. Other teams often bring in a young guy or two, even find them in later rounds. This was Shero's biggest fault as GM.

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