Meow's Morning Meeting - 3-29-15 vs. SJ

Postby **Clams Herbert** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:29 pm

I mean, if I can't stay positive, I won't watch. I'll be behind them until they lose 4 in the playoffs. Leave the team-tearing for the offseason when we talk about who to boot to the curb and who's worth keeping. Until then, just get behind 'em and hope for the best.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:33 pm

We're all very quick to look at the immediate past when it's time to be negative, but when it comes to being positive it's like, "yeah, well, remember December 9th, 2002 when we lost right after being San Jose...pssh, we're toast..." - we shut that down with long-term negativity if there's no short-term negativity to be found...

Let's look at what we have here. We have two games that have looked a good deal different than the last several weeks...there was emotion, a sense of urgency, tidy defensively, grimy goals, power play goals, grimy power play goals, some meat clacking in front of both nets, ovation-producing penalty killing...

For all we know, we're flipping the switch and we're about to go gangbusters on the whole field...or, we could lay an egg and get swept...who knows...but the idea is that we put together two very positive games in a row...if that's not something, then fine, but I'll take it given the last few weeks of relative doldrums...

Postby **llipgh2** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:33 pm

Yep. No reason to think positively at all. Let's just resign to lose ASAP so we can get on with the off season.

Look, I understand that we've felt like this before, and recently, but come on guys. With this team what else do we have left to do than hope for a miracle?

I'm actually on board with this, because I think the situation is different than the Kings game people are citing.

Reasons:

1. HCMJ's mother just passed. That is a big emotional hit, no matter how old you are. Yet he's keeping himself together, and the team is seeing this.
2. Letang. It was shocking to us to see how dazed and out it he was, and we don't know him. Imagine what his teammates felt.
3. 5 dmen, and a sick forward. Yesterday the d rose to the challenge. Above and beyond in some cases. Perron puked his guts out just prior to the game (saw this in DK's column), and contributed by scoring in the shootout.

All three reasons would be considered legitimate reasons for a loss. But they didn't lose. They waivered a bit in the second, but they won. This truly is something to build on.

Postby **the wicked child** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:27 pm

I was definitely impressed with the cajones they showed during that pk. I'm concerned about their long term prospects if Letang misses significant time, but I do like the fight they are showing.

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:01 pm

I was definitely impressed with the cajones they showed during that pk. I'm concerned about their long term prospects if Letang misses significant time, but I do like the fight they are showing.

I really hope that the current D plays well and shows management how expendable Letang really is.

Postby **meow** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:21 pm

I was definitely impressed with the cajones they showed during that pk. I'm concerned about their long term prospects if Letang misses significant time, but I do like the fight they are showing.
I really hope that the current D plays well and shows management how expendable Letang really is.

I don't think that is very likely, since Letang isn't expendable.

Postby **MalkinIsMyHomeboy** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:02 pm

Yep. No reason to think positively at all. Let's just resign to lose ASAP so we can get on with the off season.

Look, I understand that we've felt like this before, and recently, but come on guys. With this team what else do we have left to do than hope for a miracle?

Postby **darkstar57** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:00 pm

Yep. No reason to think positively at all. Let's just resign to lose ASAP so we can get on with the off season.

Look, I understand that we've felt like this before, and recently, but come on guys. With this team what else do we have left to do than hope for a miracle?

that is a great speech (FYI looks up the ice chest from that movie now, wow!! moving on)

i am cautiously optimistic about this year. For the first time in a long time i feel like we have guys that will go to war in the playoffs.

The east is going to be an absolute slug feast this year, i can honestly see any of the teams 1-8 making the finals

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:11 pm

ice chest

You must have been quite captivated by what you looked up...her name in the movie was Icebox...

Postby **MalkinIsMyHomeboy** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:06 pm

ice chest
You must have been quite captivated by what you looked up...her name in the movie was Icebox...

Icechest was her name in the porn parody, Big Giants

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:09 pm

I was definitely impressed with the cajones they showed during that pk. I'm concerned about their long term prospects if Letang misses significant time, but I do like the fight they are showing.
I really hope that the current D plays well and shows management how expendable Letang really is.
I don't think that is very likely, since Letang isn't expendable.

From a defensive zone coverage standpoint I think he is very replaceable. Given his lack of production on the PP too. I think with him out our team will have no choice but to simplify a bit. IMO that isnt a bad thing.

Postby **Pitts** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:13 pm

I was definitely impressed with the cajones they showed during that pk. I'm concerned about their long term prospects if Letang misses significant time, but I do like the fight they are showing.
I really hope that the current D plays well and shows management how expendable Letang really is.

Postby **meow** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:15 pm

I was definitely impressed with the cajones they showed during that pk. I'm concerned about their long term prospects if Letang misses significant time, but I do like the fight they are showing.
I really hope that the current D plays well and shows management how expendable Letang really is.
I don't think that is very likely, since Letang isn't expendable.
From a defensive zone coverage standpoint I think he is very replaceable. Given his lack of production on the PP too. I think with him out our team will have no choice but to simplify a bit. IMO that isnt a bad thing.

He's fourth in the league in powerplay points among defensemen and second in powerplay points per game among defensemen. The "defensive zone coverage" myth has been busted for a few years now.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:00 pm

Yeah, Letang is clearly one of the better defensemen in the entire league overall. If you want to call him out defensively from time to time, fine, but then you'd have to do the same to the non-Penguin d-men that are also lacking in some way...and at the end of the day, you slice it up, and Letang is still near the top...at least this season...

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:57 am

Yeah, Letang is clearly one of the better defensemen in the entire league overall. If you want to call him out defensively from time to time, fine, but then you'd have to do the same to the non-Penguin d-men that are also lacking in some way...and at the end of the day, you slice it up, and Letang is still near the top...at least this season...

We have had this debate before regarding Letang and there really are no metrics to say that he is a Norris candidate beyond is point totals.

I look at a team like Detroit who has less star power on the PP and with the addition of a real PP QB in Zidlicky has scored a PP goal in 11/15 games. Over that same span the Pens have scored in 6/15 games.

For the money the Pens are paying Letang he has to be a difference maker on the PP and I just dont see that. I think its one of the reasons we have fallen flat in the playoffs. Its not all on Letang but I am saying the lack of a true PP QB is the major reason we arent scoring as frequently on the PP.

Postby **MalkinIsMyHomeboy** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:09 am

Yeah, Letang is clearly one of the better defensemen in the entire league overall. If you want to call him out defensively from time to time, fine, but then you'd have to do the same to the non-Penguin d-men that are also lacking in some way...and at the end of the day, you slice it up, and Letang is still near the top...at least this season...
We have had this debate before regarding Letang and there really are no metrics to say that he is a Norris candidate beyond is point totals.

I look at a team like Detroit who has less star power on the PP and with the addition of a real PP QB in Zidlicky has scored a PP goal in 11/15 games. Over that same span the Pens have scored in 6/15 games.

For the money the Pens are paying Letang he has to be a difference maker on the PP and I just dont see that. I think its one of the reasons we have fallen flat in the playoffs. Its not all on Letang but I am saying the lack of a true PP QB is the major reason we arent scoring as frequently on the PP.

what metrics ARE there that describe defensive play?

I can't watch every other game to pay attention to the other Norris candidates, but Letang has been very good in both ends of the ice. Not to mention he's a key in the penalty kill which is top 5 this season.

Postby **meow** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:23 am

Someone should create a "heavy lifting" stat. Zone starts, corsi, plus/minus, situational TOI, and blocked shots all rolled into one.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:25 am

In all honesty, besides the absurd anti-Letang bias, Letang shouldn't be the quarterback of the power play...Crosby should...

Postby **MalkinIsMyHomeboy** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:39 am

Someone should create a "heavy lifting" stat. Zone starts, corsi, plus/minus, situational TOI, and blocked shots all rolled into one.

let's do it

you and mikey (and others if they want) have to help decide the weight of each of these. is Corsi more important than +/-? if so, how much more?

I've always kind of wanted to develop a NHL player efficiency rating like they have in the NBA.

we have a bunch of counting stats (+/-, shots, points, TOI, etc.) but nothing that combines them.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:03 pm

HART or HARO or something tries to do it, does it not?

I recall a couple of these type of stats...but they kept rating Tyler Kennedy as a top-10 player in the league (not kidding)...over-reliance on shots that are all counted as equal is the demise of the cause...

Postby **meow** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:05 pm

but they kept rating Tyler Kennedy as a top-10 player in the league

What's wrong with that?

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:07 pm

Because he's top-5...

Postby **llipgh2** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:54 pm

In all honesty, besides the absurd anti-Letang bias, Letang shouldn't be the quarterback of the power play...Crosby should...

And for the record, I'm not anti-Letang. I'm anti Letang as power play QB.

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:08 pm

In all honesty, besides the absurd anti-Letang bias, Letang shouldn't be the quarterback of the power play...Crosby should...

Thats fine. If Letang isnt going to be the PP QB, why even have him on the top Power Play. IMO, the PP is so muddled right now because no one wants to take control / take shots.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:14 pm

RHS d-man with excellent offensive skills...that's why he's on the PP. Whether he's utilized correctly is not a matter of player skill...