ECF Start Em or Sit Em - Goaltenders

[dodint]

Just curious what the actual split is on Murray v. Fleury on Friday. I've heard a lot of hedging (Start Murray but on a short leash) and few actually say start Fleury.

Not calling anyone out and I don't have a strong opinion either way. I think it would be the easiest way to work Fleury back into the game, rather than waiting for the Pens to be in a deficit. I also don't think the "Murray earned it, let him finish it out one way or another" argument is worth much. This isn't Mites, he's a grown man and will have 15 more years to shine.

I'm trying not to read in the Regis theory of high glove goals on Murray, but that sample size is growing. The Bolts are fast, it's not going to get any easier.

Again, I'm not upset either way. After writing that out I'm kind of leaning towards starting fresh with Fleury. The main downside is if he does to a brain shot and gets knocked out again, the Pens are fully exposed as thin at goaltender. This playoffs started with a Zatkoff/Jarry tandem. Woof.

You can change your vote if you change your mind.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

moar non-megathreads

[Beveridge]

I believe the phrase "you ride the hot hand" applies here.

[Silentom]

FLOWER POWER!

[Craig]

Fleury is going to be starting cold no matter what...dont create adversity, put him in only if a problem arises.

[columbia]

I expect Murray to start, but that doesn't really address your question.

[Pavement]

I would stick with Murray. I don't think Coach Sullivan will put MAF in.

[dodint]

I believe the phrase "you ride the hot hand" applies here.

Is it hot, though? He was on fire early but now it's starting to feel like game management. I guess what I'm wondering is if it's possible to switch right at the point of diminishing returns. Obviously we'd never know but if Murray did fall off the (band)wagon and lost the first two games I think a lot of folks would look at the start of a new series as the optimal point to switch. But then that's creating a scenario to support my own argument, so, meh.

[willeyeam]

I still don't think it's really up for debate. Murray until he blows it

[count2infinity]

Murray until something goes wrong. Fleury will be the starter when the new season begins, but for right now, this is Murray's team.

[dodint]

Murray until something goes wrong. Fleury will be the starter when the new season begins, but for right now, this is Murray's team.

I wonder if the 'Retain Fleury at all costs crowd' (everyone except @Jim and I, I think) feel this way as well.

And if so, is that because Fleury as a commodity has changed because of his new injuries or because the fan base has the long term memory of a goldfish? There were folks that though he shouldn't even leave the AHL this year and now he's 'the piece' for a Cup run.

[Willie Kool]

Murray or bust.

[mikey]

I still don't think it's really up for debate. Murray until he blows it

Best answer so far.

[count2infinity]

Murray until something goes wrong. Fleury will be the starter when the new season begins, but for right now, this is Murray's team.

I wonder if the 'Retain Fleury at all costs crowd' (everyone except @Jim and I, I think) feel this way as well.

Retain Fleury at all costs crowd? I mean, it's great that Murray has been awesome, but at the moment he's just a rookie on a hot streak in my book. I still think Fleury is the starter for this team when healthy at least for the next year or two.

And if so, is that because Fleury as a commodity has changed because of his new injuries or because the fan base has the long term memory of a goldfish? There were folks that though he shouldn't even leave the AHL this year and now he's 'the piece' for a Cup run.

Who thought Murray shouldn't even leave the AHL this year? I mean, if there are no injuries, I agree he should stay in the AHL. And he's "the piece" for a cup run because he has proven himself to be and had to be. It's not like there was really an option to go with Murray or Fleury, it was Murray or Zatkoff, and that's an easy decision.

[Algernon]

You cant put fleury in now.

However that justin williams goal was awful

[Craig]

I didnt know there was a keep fleury at all cost crowd.

[dodint]

Source of the post I still think Fleury is the starter for this team when healthy at least for the next year or two.

Why? If you don't trust him here why wouldn't you deal him in the off-season? If you ride Murray to a Cup you can't send him back to WBS, can you?

My only real concern in all of this is that Murray will tire out soon and the quality of play will dip. It's a huge workload for someone in his situation and the stakes are only getting higher. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

My only irrational point of contention worth airing is that everyone said Fleury was worth signing at a billion a year and now he's being thrown on the trash heap by the same crowd. Seems fickle.

[dodint]

I didnt know there was a keep fleury at all cost crowd.

Revisionist AF, no other way to put that at all.

All of it went away when he signed that super friendly local discount deal, though. So I can see how it would be 'forgotten.'

[count2infinity]

Source of the post I still think Fleury is the starter for this team when healthy at least for the next year or two.

Why? If you don't trust him here why wouldn't you deal him in the off-season? If you ride Murray to a Cup you can't send him back to WBS, can you?

My only real concern in all of this is that Murray will tire out soon and the quality of play will dip. It's a huge workload for someone in his situation and the stakes are only getting higher. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

My only irrational point of contention worth airing is that everyone said Fleury was worth signing at a billion a year and now he's being thrown on the trash heap by the same crowd. Seems fickle.

It's not a matter of trust. It's a matter of we have a hot goalie right now and you ride a hot goalie over someone coming back from injury that hasn't seen a game in months. I'm not sure how that's not clear. I was cautiously optimistic that Murray is the franchise goalie of the future before this playoff run started. I'm am still optimistic that it's the case and am less on the cautious side of optimism. I've said it quite a few times that I'd like to see over the next 3 seasons the Fluery:Murray play time be somewhere around 70:30, 50:50, 30:70 and then trade Fleury to a team that needs a goalie where he can finish his career.

Additionally "We should start the goalie that is on a roll rather than a goalie who hasn't played a real game in months" somehow = Fleury is trash?

[shmenguin]

"local discount" is another way of saying that he hadn't washed all the playoff stink off of himself by the time he was up for renewal.

stick with murray of course. if the guy coming back from injury was lundqvist or price or something...then it's a discussion.

[Waffles]

I still don't think it's really up for debate. Murray until he blows it

Best answer so far.

[dodint]

Source of the post I've said it quite a few times that I'd like to see over the next 3 seasons the Fluery:Murray play time be somewhere around 70:30, 50:50, 30:70 and then trade Fleury to a team that needs a goalie where he can finish his career.

I'm in the same boat. Which is why I think 100:0 is weird for the playoffs.

Fleury hasn't been the most strong willed player in franchise history either. I think if he's legit able to play right now, and he doesn't, and the Pens win it all that would be the end of Fleury in Pittsburgh. It may take a year or two but it will effectively be the end.
That's 100% baseless conjecture and out of the scope of this thread, just a feeling I get.

[Craig]

Source of the post I still think Fleury is the starter for this team when healthy at least for the next year or two.

Why? If you don't trust him here why wouldn't you deal him in the off-season? If you ride Murray to a Cup you can't send him back to WBS, can you?

My only real concern in all of this is that Murray will tire out soon and the quality of play will dip. It's a huge workload for someone in his situation and the stakes are only getting higher. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

My only irrational point of contention worth airing is that everyone said Fleury was worth signing at a billion a year and now he's being thrown on the trash heap by the same crowd. Seems fickle.

It's not a matter of trust. It's a matter of we have a hot goalie right now and you ride a hot goalie over someone coming back from injury that hasn't seen a game in months. I'm not sure how that's not clear. I was cautiously optimistic that Murray is the franchise goalie of the future before this playoff run started. I'm am still optimistic that it's the case and am less on the cautious side of optimism. I've said it quite a few times that I'd like to see over the next 3 seasons the Fluery:Murray play time be somewhere around 70:30, 50:50, 30:70 and then trade Fleury to a team that needs a goalie where he can finish his career.

Additionally "We should start the goalie that is on a roll rather than a goalie who hasn't played a real game in months" somehow = Fleury is trash?

Yeah there is definitely a pretty substantial leap being made here.

[dodint]

Source of the post Additionally "We should start the goalie that is on a roll rather than a goalie who hasn't played a real game in months" somehow = Fleury is trash?

This is why an opportunity was lost in Game 5.

[count2infinity]

Source of the post Additionally "We should start the goalie that is on a roll rather than a goalie who hasn't played a real game in months" somehow = Fleury is trash?

This is why an opportunity was lost in Game 5.

I don't follow...