"I think they're uncoachable. I think Babcock might be the only thing that can save the Pittsburgh Penguins." -- Rossi

Postby **MalkinIsMyHomeboy** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:26 pm

Spaling has played every game and filled in on every line when needed with consistent production. He has been worth 2.2 mil.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:28 pm

I like Spaling's game, and am not too concerned with his cap hit.

We didn't have Winnik to start the year, so I'm not sure the relevance there.

Spaling is good because he can move up and down the lineup, if needed, and not look entirely out of place. He's a solid two-way player who can contribute on the score sheet. I don't think he's a problem at all. Definitely not "dead weight".
My point with regards to Winnik is he is making 650k. You can find decent options to fill out the bottom 6 without paying $2.2M a year.

The difference between the two is 1.5M. You move a guy like Kunitz and you can pay a true top 6 forward 5M a year to replace him.

I think Winnik was making $1.3 or $1.7 million this year or some such. You're banking on not only finding these relatively-left-for-dead free agents (like Downie, Comeau, etc.), not only getting them to sign for cheap, but also that they will fit and work out. I mean, for every Comeau or Downie..there's Tanner Glass, Janne Pesonen, Nils Ekman, etc.

Part of the success of these players is proper coaching. But we're very fortunate that Comeau didn't just remain the fourth liner that he's been through most of his career. And even that has really, really worn off the past few weeks, as he has not been strong...just saying, "we could have gotten three Spalings for the price of our Spaling..." is really optimistic in any team-building exercise...tough to bank on on a regular basis, results will vary heavily...

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:33 pm

I like Spaling's game, and am not too concerned with his cap hit.

We didn't have Winnik to start the year, so I'm not sure the relevance there.

Spaling is good because he can move up and down the lineup, if needed, and not look entirely out of place. He's a solid two-way player who can contribute on the score sheet. I don't think he's a problem at all. Definitely not "dead weight".
My point with regards to Winnik is he is making 650k. You can find decent options to fill out the bottom 6 without paying $2.2M a year.

The difference between the two is 1.5M. You move a guy like Kunitz and you can pay a true top 6 forward 5M a year to replace him.
I think Winnik was making $1.3 or $1.7 million this year or some such. You're banking on not only finding these relatively-left-for-dead free agents (like Downie, Comeau, etc.), not only getting them to sign for cheap, but also that they will fit and work out. I mean, for every Comeau or Downie..there's Tanner Glass, Janne Pesonen, Nils Ekman, etc.

Part of the success of these players is proper coaching. But we're very fortunate that Comeau didn't just remain the fourth liner that he's been through most of his career. And even that has really, really worn off the past few weeks, as he has not been strong...just saying, "we could have gotten three Spalings for the price of our Spaling..." is really optimistic in any team-building exercise...tough to bank on on a regular basis, results will vary heavily...

Its a crap shoot not doubt. But we let Stempniak go so he could sign a deal with the Rangers for 900k. For me I'd rather have acquired a 2nd / 3rd rounder with Hornqvist and kept Stempniak over acquiring Spaling. I'm not sold on the Pens asset / cap management. Jason Botteril is supposedly a cap genius, but we couldnt even field a complete team against the Canes because we have no cap space.

Postby **MalkinIsMyHomeboy** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:36 pm

I think Stemp took a discount to play in NY. He is certainly underpaid but not nearly the norm.

Deryk Engelland of all people is making more than Spaling.

Postby **MR25** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:37 pm

We couldn't field a complete team because we had 3 players making something like $17 mil in cap space (off the top of my head, Hornqvist is at $3.5, Ehrhoff $4, Malkin $9.5. Could be off) unable to play because of injury, but also unable to be put on LTIR.

There's almost nothing Botterill or any GM could've done to prevent that. You can't plan for injuries.

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:40 pm

We couldn't field a complete team because we had 3 players making something like $17 mil in cap space (off the top of my head, Hornqvist is at $3.5, Ehrhoff $4, Malkin $9.5. Could be off) unable to play because of injury, but also unable to be put on LTIR.

There's almost nothing Botterill or any GM could've done to prevent that. You can't plan for injuries.

Yes you can. Dont have less than 100k in cap space. We started the season with less than 300k in cap space. Given this teams injury history you have to have a little bit of a cushion.

Postby **MR25** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:41 pm

the injury thing isn't an excuse because we were the most injured team last year and almost lead the conference in points

Isn't the typical "excuse" for always being at the top of the conference because we have Malkin or Crosby on our team?

Sure, having at least one of them will win you games more often than not. BUT, if you are missing one of them, PLUS a couple of guys who could be filling in in their absence, PLUS defensemen who should be in your top 4, it adds up.

And come on MIMH. Regular season has no effect on the playoffs. You know this.

Postby **MR25** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:43 pm

We couldn't field a complete team because we had 3 players making something like $17 mil in cap space (off the top of my head, Hornqvist is at $3.5, Ehrhoff $4, Malkin $9.5. Could be off) unable to play because of injury, but also unable to be put on LTIR.

There's almost nothing Botterill or any GM could've done to prevent that. You can't plan for injuries.
Yes you can. Dont have less than 100k in cap space. We started the season with less than 300k in cap space. Given this teams injury history you have to have a little bit of a cushion.

I think that expectation is unrealistic. Again, you can't expect to have $17 million worth of players out but unable to be placed on LTIR. It just is not possible. You're looking at this with the benefit of hindsight.

Postby **MalkinIsMyHomeboy** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:45 pm

the injury thing isn't an excuse because we were the most injured team last year and almost lead the conference in points
Isn't the typical "excuse" for always being at the top of the conference because we have Malkin or Crosby on our team?

Sure, having at least one of them will win you games more often than not. BUT, if you are missing one of them, PLUS a couple of guys who could be filling in in their absence, PLUS defensemen who should be in your top 4, it adds up.

And come on MIMH. Regular season has no effect on the playoffs. You know this.

but we had the most man-games lost last year so we were objectively the most injured team in the league. And we still won the division very easily.

I'll give you that regular season success != playoff success so we still have to see how this team does in the playoffs, but under Bylsma we knew we'd be a hell of a regular season team every year. While we're pretty much in the playoffs this year we haven't looked like a good team in a long time.

I guess my point is that MJ might not be better than DB, which means we're just treading water as a franchise.

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:46 pm

Its not like the guys we are calling up are making big $$$. The guys are making under 900k each.

Postby **meow** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:03 pm

There is a big difference between a reason and an excuse. Think about that for a minute. Digest it.

Postby **Pitts** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:07 pm

How can you fault the coach when he continually calls out his team for lack of effort. He cant even change the lineup because we have zero cap space.

This isnt Johnson's fault IMO, the front office really messed this up.

I have continually defended the coaches this season as I do think there is something rotten in the core of the players. But, the thing I DO NOT like about Johnson is his seemingly complete lack of emotion, both on the bench and in after game interviews. He never seems to get his feathers ruffled and looks to be just a really nice guy. Not sure that's what this team needed this season.

Postby **Sarcastic** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:08 pm

He's not wrong it feels like.

He's not the only one saying it. I'm saying it. But also Madden is saying it. So is Steigy. And a couple other high profile guests on Madden's show recently. It's the years of country club attitude under Bylsma. It's why they won't listen to Tocchet. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it. This group needs a no-BS coach who won't have any of that. Penguins need structure and commitment. Seemed they had it the first month of the season. And then it was gone. I don't think the coach all of a sudden changed his, you know, system or attitude. I think the players took over. Though, I'm not sure the structure/strategy itself is that good, especially on offense, if we believe what Lovejoy just said (too scripted). And he might be the only guy on the team I believe right now. Still, the successful month 1 has me puzzled on why everything turned into crap. We were better under Bylsma, at least during reg. season.

Postby **Sarcastic** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:14 pm

Can we pose a ban on any Rob Rossi articles on this site?
Second

I vote we discuss content, not source. I'm not a fan of Rossi, but this is the second rant he has now where he is right on the money.

Postby **meow** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:36 pm

Calling a player uncoachable is probably the most disrespectful thing I can think of.

Postby **columbia** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:40 pm

Calling a player uncoachable is probably the most disrespectful thing I can think of.

I believe that's the intention (independent of any truth involved).

Postby **llipgh2** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:49 pm

A team that is uncoachable, can be coached. Just change coaches. Which is what the Pens did. When they fired DB.

So Rossi thinks the team will magically become coachable if Babcock is hired. I'm sorry, Rossi is trolling. He is still butthurt over his BFF Disco being fired.

Postby **Morkle** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:16 pm

A team that is uncoachable, can be coached. Just change coaches. Which is what the Pens did. When they fired DB.

So Rossi thinks the team will magically become coachable if Babcock is hired. I'm sorry, Rossi is trolling. He is still butthurt over his BFF Disco being fired.

I see this for sure. I do also think that certain Pens players probably feel like they deserve a highly respected coach because it's not beneath them in some way.

Postby **llipgh2** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:20 pm

I see this for sure. I do also think that certain Pens players probably feel like they deserve a highly respected coach because it's not beneath them in some way.

I agree. And they'd better wake up.

Postby **Robot B9** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:55 pm

He's not wrong it feels like.

I'm in that camp. This team may be uncoachable - over the course of each season. Might have been at one time, back the story keeps repeating. Strong out of the gate in rs, then only a matter of time before the wheels go splaying into the ditch as the cart grinds itself to a wheel-less death.

Postby **Pitts** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:07 pm

Can we pose a ban on any Rob Rossi articles on this site?
Second
I vote we discuss content, not source. I'm not a fan of Rossi, but this is the second rant he has now where he is right on the money.

I agree. I thought we wanted to get away from such crap by coming here. Rossi's thoughts (content) are relevant to the discussion of the team.

Postby **wallflower** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:43 pm

I said after last season* that I think this team has a character problem. Unfortunately, I think I was right.

At this point, injuries are no longer an excuse - it's just part of the being the Penguins. There is something very wrong with the mental make-up of these guys; they let up one goal and quit. And you can't sit/scratch the guys that do it because you would end up with, maybe, 4 active players. I mean, geez, Crosby looks like he doesn't give a crap some nights anymore, which is something I'd never thought I'd say.

I don't have any solutions to offer, outside of blowing the team up which is not going to happen.

*(I guess only the posters I'm friends with on FB or in real life actually can attest to that but whatevs.)

YouTube · Postby **EdOlczyk** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:02 pm

I really think this is the answer.

Not sure about Babcock, but I think Rossi is right here. Can't believe I'm agreeing with him for once. Unreal.

Postby **Sarcastic** » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:47 pm

I think there are multiple problems on this team. Lack of depth that will take time to address (top 6 being the biggest issue, imo, with Kunitz running out of gas/time, Dupuis injured/old, and Comeau being nice but better for line 3). I don't think MJ's doing a great job on a couple different fronts. Some character issues persist where key players don't show up on some nights (and at least on the PP, where we maybe can't blame MJ but they don't want to adjust to what Tocchet wants to see). I'm getting depressed here, considering the potential if they only ironed out these, seemingly, obvious issues.