NHL Entry Draft 2015

Postby **count2infinity** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:45 pm

*Shrug* Just make Botterill GM next year. I prefer him over any of the other ones (don't mind GMJR).
This. He has the best combo of hockey / business acumen of that group. This experiment has failed.

Simply out of curiosity, what is the experiment and how exactly has it failed?

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:50 pm

*Shrug* Just make Botterill GM next year. I prefer him over any of the other ones (don't mind GMJR).
This. He has the best combo of hockey / business acumen of that group. This experiment has failed.
Simply out of curiosity, what is the experiment and how exactly has it failed?

Keeping 3 potential GM's around to work with GMJR. There has to be some animousity because they are all vying for the GM job once JR retires.

It has failed because with different opinions there seems to be no clear cut vision for this teams future.

Postby **count2infinity** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:56 pm

It has failed because with different opinions there seems to be no clear cut vision for this teams future.

what evidence do you have to support this sort of claim?

Postby **meow** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:58 pm

It has failed because with different opinions there seems to be no clear cut vision for this teams future.
what evidence do you have to support this sort of claim?

Pens have too many smart guys around. Bring in more dumb guys.

Postby **columbia** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:01 pm

I thought we were past that good with cap shtick (for management crew); it's about specialized accounting software.

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:01 pm

It has failed because with different opinions there seems to be no clear cut vision for this teams future.
what evidence do you have to support this sort of claim?
Pens have too many smart guys around. Bring in more dumb guys.

If there are smart guys in the group they arent winning out. Giving up what they did for Winnik and Lovejoy isnt exactly putting us in a better positiion.

Postby **meow** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:04 pm

It has failed because with different opinions there seems to be no clear cut vision for this teams future.
what evidence do you have to support this sort of claim?
Pens have too many smart guys around. Bring in more dumb guys.
If there are smart guys in the group they arent winning out. Giving up what they did for Winnik and Lovejoy isnt exactly putting us in a better positiion.

Let's forget about the Perron, Lapierre and Cole deals because they don't fit the agenda.

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:08 pm

Perron is one that is too early to tell. Lapierre worked out so well we arent going to resign him. By all accounts Gary Agnew was the reason we brought in Cole. He had a good relationship with him when he was an assistant on the Blues.

Postby **MR25** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:08 pm

How much do you want to bet all of it was an act to see how the Pittsburgh media hacks would react.

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:10 pm

How much do you want to bet all of it was an act to see how the Pittsburgh media hacks would react.

Apparenly it was nothing more than a normal front office meeting, that just happened to be in a public setting vs. behind closed doors.

Postby **Factorial** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:44 pm

How much do you want to bet all of it was an act to see how the Pittsburgh media hacks would react.
Apparenly it was nothing more than a normal front office meeting, that just happened to be in a public setting vs. behind closed doors.

Is there footage of this available?

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:37 pm

I'm not saying it's great, the optics are not good...but people think that men in ties (and players in uniform) just sit around and sip tea and chat...these are competitive men that can have a differing opinions...disagreements happen all the time...

Too bad it happened in public though...

Postby **slappybrown** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:03 pm

I'm not saying it's great, the optics are not good...but people think that men in ties (and players in uniform) just sit around and sip tea and chat...these are competitive men that can have a differing opinions...disagreements happen all the time...

Too bad it happened in public though...

GMJR is supposed to take charge and say let's retire to a more private location and continue this there. That's it. It doesn't necessarily reflect on the quality or lack thereof in terms of their hockey moves, but it is poor (business side) management.

Postby **thehockeyguru** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:06 pm

I'm not saying it's great, the optics are not good...but people think that men in ties (and players in uniform) just sit around and sip tea and chat...these are competitive men that can have a differing opinions...disagreements happen all the time...

Too bad it happened in public though...
GMJR is supposed to take charge and say let's retire to a more private location and continue this there. That's it. It doesn't necessarily reflect on the quality or lack thereof in terms of their hockey moves, but it is poor (business side) management.

He was gone at this point. Trying to salvage what was left of the early-bird at Old Country Buffet.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:12 pm

I'm not saying it's great, the optics are not good...but people think that men in ties (and players in uniform) just sit around and sip tea and chat...these are competitive men that can have a differing opinions...disagreements happen all the time...

Too bad it happened in public though...
GMJR is supposed to take charge and say let's retire to a more private location and continue this there. That's it. It doesn't necessarily reflect on the quality or lack thereof in terms of their hockey moves, but it is poor (business side) management.

No, I agree with you. Maybe the organizational still lacks strong leadership from top to bottom...?

Postby **slappybrown** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:14 pm

I'm not saying it's great, the optics are not good...but people think that men in ties (and players in uniform) just sit around and sip tea and chat...these are competitive men that can have a differing opinions...disagreements happen all the time...

Too bad it happened in public though...
GMJR is supposed to take charge and say let's retire to a more private location and continue this there. That's it. It doesn't necessarily reflect on the quality or lack thereof in terms of their hockey moves, but it is poor (business side) management.
No, I agree with you. Maybe the organizational still lacks strong leadership from top to bottom...?

No I agree were on the same page, I was just building on your point.

To this point, many would point to Morehouse I suppose. The old man Rutherford trope is a little too facile for me, though I concede I don't entirely trust him.

Postby **Avyran** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:21 pm

That's one of the main reasons why I want Botterill named sole GM next year or something. With a turbulent / volatile time for the Pens (team open to being sold, GM committee, on-ice performance slump), it'd be good to make a very strong stance & move forward like that, making a commitment to a younger GM like Botterill instead of stringing him along in the committee. To be honest, I wish they'd do the same & stick to their guns when it comes to not even considering trading Maatta/Pouliot, and saying they're going with youth.

Speaking of the last part, part of me thinks the youth movement would be really good for everyone involved. With the Pens, they're no hope for a championship; instead, there's expectation. There's been some notes coming out the past year from folks like Orpik & Niskanen about the feel of the room, and how going to Washington was a great relief / the environment was a lot more enjoyable. A youth movement might bring back that same joy to the Pens' locker room, and also somewhat lessen expectations on the team (without actually lessening their chances) because the names aren't as known.

This is just a random tangent, though, and I've no real knowledge of the team environment & such. The GM thing, though, I think is a good step to stabilize the front office.

Postby **columbia** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:24 pm

What leads people to believe Botterill is the second coming (and please don't mention accounting)?

Postby **Avyran** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:26 pm

What leads people to believe Botterill is the second coming (and please don't mention accounting)?

Ah, I don't think he's some amazing guy. I'd just prefer him over Fitzgerald & Guerin, though I'd be fine with Fitzgerald as well, and want a single GM over a committee. That's all.

Postby **shmenguin** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:35 pm

The cap guru who watched us play with 5 dmen in critical games.

Boterill might be just super. He'll need to establish a new reputation, however.

YouTube · Postby **mikey** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:05 pm

He's not a medicine man. He runs the books and knows the CBA...

Postby **shmenguin** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:12 pm

He's not a medicine man. He runs the books and knows the CBA...

Yeah I know he's limited. But if he's there in his current capacity, and we still make that winnik trade...his capacity is diminished a bit.

Postby **slappybrown** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:42 pm

He's not a medicine man. He runs the books and knows the CBA...

He deserves some level of criticism. How much is unclear because it rests on whether he knowingly or unknowingly took/advised GMJR of the risk that resulted in 5 d for a month.

Postby **MR25** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:53 pm

You can't plan for losing 2 defenseman making a combined 11 million after the LTIR deadline. It's just not possible.

Postby **slappybrown** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:36 am

You can't plan for losing 2 defenseman making a combined 11 million after the LTIR deadline. It's just not possible.

There's a difference between "planning to lose" and being cognizant/informed of risk. I've no idea to what extent they satisfied the latter. I would hope they did given they were 6 cents under the cap after the deadline.